has mp.com and/or rockclimbing.com ruined route booty?

maybe i'm way off base here, but it was always my understanding that when you or a partner can't get a piece out on a climb, it's fair game for whoever spends the time on it and can get it out, after you. such is life, shouldn't have had the n00b follow or shouldn't have overcammed the piece.

it seems now, though, through various climbing websites (mp.com and rockclimbing.com most specifically in my experience) that i see variations of the following:

"hey, i was leading the 3rd pitch on [insert route name] and my second couldn't get the #2 camalot out. it has green tape on the trigger and a bd neutrino biner on it (also with green tape). if someone was able to get it out, i would really like it back. my email is listed in my profile. thanks!"

has anyone actually gotten gear back in this manner? i've just always assumed you chalk that one up to bad karma and eventually buy a new piece to replace it, cause that baby is gone! any thoughts?

i don't think it ever works... but it's worth a try, right?

gatch wrote:maybe i'm way off base here, but it was always my understanding that when you or a partner can't get a piece out on a climb, it's fair game for whoever spends the time on it and can get it out, after you. such is life, shouldn't have had the n00b follow or shouldn't have overcammed the piece. it seems now, though, through various climbing websites (mp.com and rockclimbing.com most specifically in my experience) that i see variations of the following: "hey, i was leading the 3rd pitch on [insert route name] and my second couldn't get the #2 camalot out. it has green tape on the trigger and a bd neutrino biner on it (also with green tape). if someone was able to get it out, i would really like it back. my email is listed in my profile. thanks!" has anyone actually gotten gear back in this manner? i've just always assumed you chalk that one up to bad karma and eventually buy a new piece to replace it, cause that baby is gone! any thoughts?

This is just what you wanted
I fucked up

I personally have never gotten gear back if the party behind me that day didn't get it out and returned it to me back at the bottom or on the way down, but i have returned gear that others have lost and it made me feel good and they were happy. Thats about the best we can do sometimes.
It seems worth it to me.
-Jon

Nothing has changed, it's just more publicized because of the internet. There are those that abide by the rules of booty, and those that don't.

I was at Arapiles over Easter break (traffic high, lots of noobs) and there were notes practically daily on the board pointing out where their "lost" gear was and where you could return it to them. I thought it was a case of a difference of ethics until I found fellow dirtbags making morning sweeps of the board to find out where they should warmup that morning. I even found a huge cardboard sign at the base of an adjacent climb instructing any climbers able to retrieve the "lost" piece to return it to them at some location. We climbed that one instead.

I don't think it's such a big deal to give people back the gear they spent hard earned money on. If you lost something near my house, I'd try to get it back to you..not call it "booty".

yeah free gear is cool, but good karma is even cooler...no skin off my back to give something back that wasn't mine to begin with.

Scott McMahon wrote:I don't think it's such a big deal to give people back the gear they spent hard earned money on. If you lost something near my house, I'd try to get it back to you..not call it "booty". yeah free gear is cool, but good karma is even cooler...no skin off my back to give something back that wasn't mine to begin with.

Hopefully with this commendable comment this discussion has come to an end.

You aren't REQUIRED to return it. But why not if it makes you feel good?

I got some "fixed" gear of mine back for the price of some beer. Of course, I'd returned to the crag after a couple of hours to give it another go at cam removal when I encountered the party who'd bootied it, so negotiations were easier. It would take some precipitating circumstances for me to beg others to get my gear out; I'd rather take the financial lump and lesson learned.

I always advertise here, but have yet to return anything because of it. The last gear I returned was a hex slung with a rope that got stuck on "Ragger Bagger" at Turkey Perch. It was easy to get out and I got the number of the couple that got it stuck. As it was, it was the same vintage hex as a booty hex I had cleaned years ago at Castle Rock. So I gave the guy both of them. At least he climbs on that stuff. I hate them.

Sometimes I just give booty to friends who are lacking gear, too. A girl couldn't make it to climb with us one day, so I gave her a booty cam I cleaned that day. Kind of fun that way.

Scott McMahon wrote:I don't think it's such a big deal to give people back the gear they spent hard earned money on. If you lost something near my house, I'd try to get it back to you..not call it "booty". yeah free gear is cool, but good karma is even cooler...no skin off my back to give something back that wasn't mine to begin with.

very well put, and i def agree. especially if it happens to be the same day and you run into the party that lost the gear. i guess my question deals directly with the 'anonymous' post on the web site asking for the gear back, after you've retrieved it. it seemed that before these websites, unless you ran into the other party on the trail, at the parking lot or campsite, or at the bar afterward, you were karmically in the clear, booty was yours. now it seems different, and was just wondering what others experiences were with this 'phenomenon'.

i should also say that this scenario has never happened to me or applied directly or indirectly to me, also prompting me to find out what people have run into.

Stich wrote:Sometimes I just give booty to friends who are lacking gear, too. A girl couldn't make it to climb with us one day, so I gave her a booty cam I cleaned that day. Kind of fun that way.

i like that.

Scott McMahon wrote:I don't think it's such a big deal to give people back the gear they spent hard earned money on. If you lost something near my house, I'd try to get it back to you..not call it "booty". yeah free gear is cool, but good karma is even cooler...no skin off my back to give something back that wasn't mine to begin with.

Who am I to punish noobs? Besides, it's good karma to get gear back to the owner, or at least make the attempt. Kindof the definition of climbing "community".

I don't feel obligated to advertise or give back bootied gear, but I think it's the right thing to do. Right, BD?

I love the challenge of a "fixed" pice of gear.(When the sling is not cooked off by the sun.) i am one who thinks " if it went in it will come out" if you can reach it! If I ran into a party when i knew i bootied their i would happily give it back.(karma) When it is something i dont use on my normal rack it will just sit in a box anyway.

Stich wrote:Sometimes I just give booty to friends who are lacking gear, too. A girl couldn't make it to climb with us one day, so I gave her a booty cam I cleaned that day. Kind of fun that way.

That reminds me of a girl I was climbing with. She once bootied a #3 camalot in great condition on a route we were climbing. The only thing I bootied though was her booty. Now that her booty is gone, I wish I had that #3.

I once found a whole rack lying at the base of a climb in Red Rocks. We were stoked on that booty!

I have had a similar instance,
I was with this n00b-ish guy and we were up on the east butt of the captain, the chimney pitch7 or something, and I supposedly barried this cam...-I'm 6'3" so maybe ..but I didnt think so- needless to say he couldnt grab it.
We finished out the climb,

later that night we were talking to out camp roomie

---this Brit that -lended me and my partner water/saved my life-, me and a different partner when we were up on halfdome a week before---

telling this brit how my n00b-ish partner got my number 2 stuck... the Brit remarks with "this number 2" .. lol

It was a relief