cragging with a baby

My wife and I are due in a couple of weeks, as well, and we've been trying to master the logistics of climbing with baby, too. We've found/seen a few success parents and gleaned some advice from them. First, find a nice, climber/babysitter to accompnay you to the crag ever so often. We're fortunate enough to have a pretty tight climbing community up here in VT with plenty of older climbing parents that have super nice and eager climbing teens. Also, some of the aforementioned advice about not having lofty climbing expectations is spot on. I think for both my wife and I, success/happiness will be in the form of going to crags we know well, climbing routes we won't be doggin' all over, and simply being fast and efficient with each route, but chill in the same respect. No sense in stressing out--it's supposed to be fun and enjoyable. Also, check this out: kidco.com/main.taf?p=4,5. It's called the Peapod, and we've seen several parenting couples using this at the crag, and it seems genius. We picked one up, and look forward to testing it out this summer at Acadia/Rumney/Adirondacks/Gunks.

We've been cragging with our kid almost the entire 18 months he's been around. The peapod works well once your kid is mobile. Earlier it's easier to haul a car seat to the crag and leave the sun shade up while they nap. At some point in there we used a bumbo seat so he could sit in the shade and watch us climb. Now that he's running everywhere we need a third person around to keep an eye on him. The first six or so months are easiest for climbing...

Just something to keep in mind...

This was brought to my attention by Michael Kennedy.

Appeal by Salavat Rakhmetov for his daughter Zaila

Following a serious accident to his daughter Zaila, the Russian climber Salavat Rakhmetov has launched an appeal to the entire climbing community.

We've published below an appeal sent to us by Russian journalist Anna Piunova who recounts the terrible accident which happened to the 5 year old daughter of Salavat Rakhmetov, the extremely strong Russian climber and 2005 Bouldering World Champion. More than a week has passed since the accident and young Zaila is still in coma and needs further expensive treatment, which the family cannot afford. Here is the letter and the transfer details for those who wish to help the Rakhmetovs.

Appeal by Anna Piunova
"A dreadful accident happened about a week ago in Turkey with Zalia, the daughter of Salavat Rakhmetov. Salavat was leading belayed by his wife when a huge block of rock fell down directly onto their 5 year old daughter. At present she is still unconsciousness, in intensive care in a Turkish hospital and has has pulled through four surgeries (amputation of hand, a big toe has been reattached, broken arm and a leg) but she needs one more delicate operation to remove the damaged fragments of her skull which are lodged in her brain. Currently the doctors are waiting for the swelling in her brain to subside to allow the operation
The problem is that her medical insurance ends on 28/05/2010 and she is not transportable because of the injuries. Hospitalization may last from two weeks to a month. And the cost (without surgeries) will be approximately $74,000. The rent of a special aircraft to transport Zalia home is about $49,000. She needs $123,000.
I am attempting to coordinate donations, but the situation is not easy. Thank you for your generosity and take care. Anna Piunova"

Transfer details:
Western Union
Beneficiary: Rakhmetov Salavat (Kipaevich)
Country: Russia
Additional information
Passport number: 63 n. 8399932
Valid: 28.04.2009 - 28.04.2014
Moscovskaya oblast, g. Odintsovo

Here is a thread on SuperTopo about this tragic accident.

supertopo.com/climbing/thre…

Raised three kids while at least still getting after some of it.
Be carefull out there.

You can do it depending on what sort of cragging is available to you.

We took our daughter to the crags fairly often when she was an infant. What we needed was:

1. A third person who was prepared to do twice the amount of climbing that each of us did. This person also had to be tolerant of children and the constraints that they impose in general.

2. A crag with a flat base that was wide enough to get her out of rockfall range.

3. Some sort of padding - usually a combination of the pack, extra slings and so on.

4. Giving up the idea of getting more than half a rope length off the ground and lowering our expectations in general.

This worked pretty well until she started to be able to crawl around - we had to abandon one Pennsylvania crag after she started playing with the coal slag at its base. Now that she is 6, the main requirement would to take one of her friends along but we still don't have crags where the ability to avoid rockfall is commensurate with her awareness of rockfall. And my younger son is too young to join in without a third person.

So you can still climb but it will be a lot more constrained.

Can I add, please keep the baby well away from the bottom of any route?
I saw a baby at the Gunks placed right in the impact zone of any falling gear or rock and the parents seemed oblivious to the danger as they climbed close by. It was shocking really.
Climbers wear helmets and are expected to leap out of the way of falling rocks at the last second to save themselves!
IMHO, the bottom of a cliff is not a safe place for a baby.

I am now a parent of two. A 2.5 year old and a 2 month old.

Outside climbing. You need 3 people. This worked well on multiple trips to the city of rocks and a week in RMNP. Kids will be unpredictable when and if they will sleep, how they will behave, etc at the crag. If you are in the middle of a lead the last thing you need is you or your belayer distracted by a crying baby or a toddler getting into trouble. Plus the additional comments about safety - OBJECTIVE HAZARDS AT CRAGS SHOULD BE MINIMIZED FOR THE LITTLE ONES!.

Indoor climbing. My wife and I did a lot of gym climbing with #1. He was a predictable sleeper in the evening prior to being mobile (1-6 months). We would head to the gym in the evenings, he would fall asleep in the car and we would take the car seat in and keep him close as we climbed. It didn't work when it was crowded as there were too many hazards with a lot of people climbing. Make sure you keep the little one clear of any other climbers who could fall.

It changes the game considerably. Its not over, just different for awhile. Logistics are tougher.

PT

Eastvillage wrote:Can I add, please keep the baby well away from the bottom of any route? I saw a baby at the Gunks placed right in the impact zone of any falling gear or rock and the parents seemed oblivious to the danger as they climbed close by. It was shocking really. Climbers wear helmets and are expected to leap out of the way of falling rocks at the last second to save themselves! IMHO, the bottom of a cliff is not a safe place for a baby.

Congratulations on the new addition to your family!!
IMO Mommy and Daddy should trade off climbing days, keep your new little one at home. It will give you chance to meet other climbers, new friends with children and get some time to yourself every once in a while; get your bearings back. Babies are too delicate to be out and about in the elements so early. Their eyes and skin are still so new they need to be kept out of the elements for the most part at least 4-5 months. Hey you could always inquire about it with your pediatrician too!

As a father of 2 I have observed first hand the tight grip babys have when you try to remove something from their hands and their seemingly endless fascination with tags, strings, etc..

What does does that have to do with anything? Why not put them to use as a belayer? Just make sure they are properly anchored in and belaying from the anchor.

This should probably only be done top roping. Lead climbing this way would be irresponsible in my opinion.

I'll reiterate - NOT A PIPE DREAM. Get out there and do it. Lots of good advice so far, and I'll emphasize the three I think most important.

1) Keep kids back from cliff, and away from falling objects.

2) If roped up ALWAYS have a third person, preferably someone flexible and understanding of your situation.

3) Remember you are not the number one priority, and don't go into the day with high expectations or a big agenda. You are on their schedule - if your kid is not having a good day, time to go home. I've had days with my two kids where we climbed for 6 hours. I've had days where I stayed 30 minutes.

And lastly, if your kid is as ugly as the kid pictured on page 1, please don't post pictures!

My wife and I have had a fair amount of success climbing with our child. He is now 2 1/2. We did not get out with him until he was about 3 months and then just for some short bouldering trips as it was winter and we did not want him out side in the cold too long.

-Kids are way easier when they don't move, we used a crash pad with success, nice place for the little one to lay and a good seat for the feedings.
-3 people is really important in my opinion, I've seen parents out without help and seen some pretty sketchy belaying because of it. Local kids from the climbing team or other couple with kids are good for this.
-Keep in mind as others have said that some crags will work and others will not. Also, this will change as the child gets older and actually become more restrictive before it gets better (little ones just need space to hang, once mobile they need appropriate space to play)

In 6-7 years you will always have a climbing partner. Congrats.

Joe Kreidel wrote:I'll reiterate - NOT A PIPE DREAM. Get out there and do it. Lots of good advice so far, and I'll emphasize the three I think most important. 1) Keep kids back from cliff, and away from falling objects. 2) If roped up ALWAYS have a third person, preferably someone flexible and understanding of your situation. 3) Remember you are not the number one priority, and don't go into the day with high expectations or a big agenda. You are on their schedule - if your kid is not having a good day, time to go home. I've had days with my two kids where we climbed for 6 hours. I've had days where I stayed 30 minutes. And lastly, if your kid is as ugly as the kid pictured on page 1, please don't post pictures!

I was wondering when you would show your ugly face on here Joe. I just didn't expect you to stoop so low as to insult my kid. JERK!

Thomas you have a beautiful baby!

Second that on the photo, very cute kid; not sure about the previous comment from Joe :(

I want to know who are these mysterious third climbers in the party who are willing to mind the child for free? Where can I find one? Our daughter is enough of a handful that I would be very hesitant to rely on someone else to keep her in line in any kind of climbing situation. Maybe it's just that the cliffs close to Boulder are really not preschool territory. Going to the gym is simply a non-starter with too much traffic and falling adults.

If you are serious about still climbing hard with a preschooler, hire a babysitter or trade off sessions with your spouse. If you can, build a wall at home. But bringing small children to the crag is too sketchy for all but the most docile kids in the most innocuous areas, i.e. ones with no loose rocks on or near the cliff, no big drops or steep slopes, no cactus, no rattlesnakes, no deep water nearby, no groundfalling adults, no long approach, no approach with any of the abovementioned factors, no proximity to highways, the list goes on and on...

I appreciate the optimism of several of the posters above but please be realistic, especially regarding your kids.

Peter Beal wrote:Second that on the photo, very cute kid; not sure about the previous comment from Joe :( I want to know who are these mysterious third climbers in the party who are willing to mind the child for free? Where can I find one? Our daughter is enough of a handful that I would be very hesitant to rely on someone else to keep her in line in any kind of climbing situation. Maybe it's just that the cliffs close to Boulder are really not preschool territory. Going to the gym is simply a non-starter with too much traffic and falling adults. If you are serious about still climbing hard with a preschooler, hire a babysitter or trade off sessions with your spouse. If you can, build a wall at home. But bringing small children to the crag is too sketchy for all but the most docile kids in the most innocuous areas, i.e. ones with no loose rocks on or near the cliff, no big drops or steep slopes, no cactus, no rattlesnakes, no deep water nearby, no groundfalling adults, no long approach, no approach with any of the abovementioned factors, no proximity to highways, the list goes on and on... I appreciate the optimism of several of the posters above but please be realistic, especially regarding your kids.

In our case, the third person did not look after the kid; the third person climbed and belayed. One parent looked after the kid, while the other climbed or belayed. And then the parents switched off.

But the viability of this does depend on the terrain available. For example, there are many places at City of Rocks where the kids could play within sight of the cliff but be sufficiently distant from the rock face so as to be safe. Not so much though in Grand Junction where I now live.

Peter Beal wrote:I appreciate the optimism of several of the posters above but please be realistic, especially regarding your kids.

That was my primary point. Lots of factors need to align to make it happen so, if you get really pysched on climbing all the time, you may be disappointed.

Also, while you may be game to take the kids to the crags, it will really depend in large part on your wife being cool with it. If she's like mine (a former climber), her focus will change BIG time once she's a mom and it will be much more difficult to make it happen. I wish you the best of luck in doing just that. I just hear a lot of dads chiming in but few if any mothers.

Let's face it though, most of you guys are from Colorado. The crags are just so close it seems that seems much more reasonable. Here in LA, it's 2.5 hrs. to Josh, and Idyllwild isn't an option given the hike in. For you, the convenience alone should made it way more doable.

Peter Beal wrote:Second that on the photo, very cute kid; not sure about the previous comment from Joe :( I want to know who are these mysterious third climbers in the party who are willing to mind the child for free? Where can I find one? Our daughter is enough of a handful that I would be very hesitant to rely on someone else to keep her in line in any kind of climbing situation. Maybe it's just that the cliffs close to Boulder are really not preschool territory. Going to the gym is simply a non-starter with too much traffic and falling adults. If you are serious about still climbing hard with a preschooler, hire a babysitter or trade off sessions with your spouse. If you can, build a wall at home. But bringing small children to the crag is too sketchy for all but the most docile kids in the most innocuous areas, i.e. ones with no loose rocks on or near the cliff, no big drops or steep slopes, no cactus, no rattlesnakes, no deep water nearby, no groundfalling adults, no long approach, no approach with any of the abovementioned factors, no proximity to highways, the list goes on and on... I appreciate the optimism of several of the posters above but please be realistic, especially regarding your kids.

• As far as finding that elusive 3rd. One option is the kids on your local climbing team, you know the ones you might hire to babysit anyway. Maybe they are not old enough to drive or their parents will not let them go climbing without an adult, so they are just a psyched if not more so to get out climbing even if it means not getting as much in. We also have a good friend that used to climb with his wife until they had a kid and now the wife does not climb so the 3 of us go together. However you choose to try you need to be sure that your child is comfortable with the 3rd person and realize that even still it may take time each day for them to warm up to the "new" individual.
• As far as what crags are OK with kids. I've climbed a fair bit around Boulder which is where many of the posters are and would feel that many of the crags are NOT OK for kids, especially once mobile. Most places in Boulder Canyon and Clear Creek Canyon are just too steep at the base with cars or a real river near by. Eldo presents many of the same problems as well in addition to taller walls. Hiking into the Flatirons might be a bit long for some and I don't know that there is enough flat area up there. One of the issues around the front range as well in just the number of climbers, having others around is nice but it can get too crowded for kids rather quickly. When ours was not mobile we would head to the Enchanted Tower and climb with him around the base, now he might stay down by the car, it is only a 2 minute approach so you can still trade off. Last summer when he was about 1 1/2 we headed to the Dungeon a lot which has a pretty big flat area, is well shaded and has a trickling stream to play in and he loved it. I've even taken him into the Sandias which are somewhat notorious for having loose rock and long approaches, but there are very few climbers so you just make sure you are well away from you partners that are climbing, this gets back to the too crowded point about many front range crags.
• As far as cactus goes, of which we have a lot. Luckily for us ours was a late walker which means it was not till he was almost 2 that he could really run about. At this point we were able to tell him not to touch the cactus and that if he did it would be very OWWIE. He has yet to run into cactus but I'm sure it will happen and after that probably not again, kids learn, and getting hurt is a part of the learning process.