hand drills

hey i have found a few routes that i want to project and the bolt on lead. i dont have much money and after looking around the internet i found hand drills such as the petzl ROCPEC. i was wondering what you guys think about using a hand drill vs. an actual rock drill. is it a pain in the ass and not worth the work for getting a hand drill? is the mountain gear bolt kit a good way to go or are there any cheaper hand drill and bolting kits out there?

Bolting on lead with a hand drill is very difficult. Takes about 15 to 20 minutes to drill 3/8 by 3 inch hole. just make sure you have great hook placements, or something solid to hang from. Definitely adventurous. Electic drills are hard to climb with because they tend to be very heavy, unless you spend a good amount of money.

Conor you are the king of crack....hahaha hope all is well and I second the hand drill comment. Hand drills are for people with time or to back up something already existing.

thanks i just realised that i have an old hand ogger. if i just bought the drill bit and bolts and hangers would my drilling process go faster?

Buy a hand drill, start drilling. I don't know anyone who can drill a 3/8 x 3" bolt from any position in hard rock, ie.. Granite.

I have spent up to 1.5 hours at a "Bad stance" trying to get a 2" bolt placed.

There is no "Average" time a hole can be drilled in.

Machines allow bolt placements that a normal hand/stance driller may not be able to make.

It is an ethics issue, hand drilling is becoming a lost art due to comments like this:

"is it a pain in the ass and not worth the work"

Hooking is another facet of new routing you had better get on board with if your going ground up.

Petzl or hurricane drills

patrick donahue wrote:thanks i just realised that i have an old hand ogger. if i just bought the drill bit and bolts and hangers would my drilling process go faster?

An old hardware style handrill will not work. You need the combination of hammer/drill/hammer/drill.

sorry for a noob question but what do you mean by "combination of hammer/drill/hammer/drill."?

On second thought......

Stay as far away from drilling as possible.

Haha hey Caleb.

In order to drill rock you need to hammer on the drill, then rotate, much like the motion of electric hammer drills. so only drills made for hammering on will work.

thanks Conor for giving me some pointers

but, hey mucci why do you have to hate. this site is made for informing and helping out the climbing community. if you actually cared about the community you wouldnt make comments like that. you truly would help out other climbers that are trying to learn the trade. so dont hate i asked a simple question and all i want to do is give back to my local climbing community by developing a new route.

Sorry Patrick,

But with comments like this:
"thanks i just realised that i have an old hand ogger. if i just bought the drill bit and bolts and hangers would my drilling process go faster?"

I would say you are in no position to "Give back to the community"

Establishing routes, placing bolts properly, ie. lenghth, diameter, type is not something you half-heartedly step into.

On that note: Find someone with experience, learn from them.

Without practice, hand drilling a bolt in granite will at least take an hour and give you a very sore wrist.

Judging from the fact you are from the Granite State, I reckon you will be drilling on that type of rock unless you are developping something at Rumney.

I don't want to discourage you, so if you have the patience and some ice packs Giv'er!

patrick donahue wrote:thanks Conor for giving me some pointers but, hey mucci why do you have to hate. this site is made for informing and helping out the climbing community. if you actually cared about the community you wouldnt make comments like that. you truly would help out other climbers that are trying to learn the trade. so dont hate i asked a simple question and all i want to do is give back to my local climbing community by developing a new route.

Patrick,

There are a couple things you must understand about bolting:

1. It is controversial in any situation, so having a nuanced understanding of the local ethic, land owner/manager relations, and other users groups is essential before even considering thinking about doing some drilling. The potential to do harm is far greater than to do good.
2. It's permanent. You drill and its there forever. There is not alot of room for screw ups, and it is an art as much as a technical skill to bolt a route in a way that is safe.
3. Other users cannot really tell the quality of your bolting job from visual inspection. So, if you do a crap job, someone else might pay the price.
4. It is a lot of work and alot of money to do properly. You will invest the better part of a $100 in hardwear alone. Bolting is a PITA on rap, its a puckering and dangerous experience done ground up. Ask me why I've drilled exactly TWO holes in my life, and that was from a stance. Go find a rock in your garden and try to drill a hole.

So, Mucci might have been indelicate in his wording, but he is on point in telling you that it appears that you have no business bolting.

If you are serious about it, find an active developer in your area and get mentored.

Cheers,
Evan

Thats great advice. I think drilling on lead will give a great appreciation for bolting, and routes done this way. Especially Notorious routes like the bachar/yerian.

Evan thank you for your advise.

i realize that im going to need to practice and need a mentor therefore im going to talk to local people that are developing to bring me along side to see how its done.

Hand drilling is an art. Powerdrills are... not for me.

Crafting a new route should require careful thought. Hand drilling prevents excess because of the time it takes. Drilling a proper hole in granite usally takes 20 minutes. Something hard like basalt can take an hour.

I am fortunate to own a couple of Rawl drill holders. They are the best. The kind that hold the SDS (power drill) bits can be problematic if they use a screw-down instead of wedge holder. Check for other threads on this subject.

Take time to study and craft your route. Top-rope it first if you can to be sure it is worthy of the drill.

If you bolt on toprope or rappel, study carefully to put bolts in at natural stances.

If you bolt on lead place your bolts with others in mind. Are you going to just get up the rock to get to the top? Or create a route for others to follow, in this case be kind and don't set up deadly run-outs. Those are a waste of resources. So is overbolting.

Practice a couple of holes a piece of rubble for your first drilling attempt.