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Bailing on sport route

Ed Wright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 285

David A.: Seriously, DON'T re-use slings. Many years ago a British group tested slings (made of 1 inch tubular webbing) that had been used this way and found that pulling a rope through a sling just once damages the sling to half its strength.

Ed Wright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 285

It's not bolts that make a sport climb. It's how they are placed. Placed on rappel= sport climbing. Done on lead ground up= trad.>

??? I bolt all my routes ground-up on lead but don't consider that to be trad climbing. And it certainly isn't trad climbing for those who follow with just a rack of draws.

Richard Radcliffe · · Erie, CO · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 225

You could do what my old friend DH was known to do on occasion: unclip and take your draw; fall on the next bolt; yard up and repeat. Continue until the last bolt.

Brian in SLC · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 21,711

I guess I'd urge folks NOT to leave a quick link...

Fixed link on bolt at Stone Mountain, NC.

I'd say go to a gear swap or ebay and pick up a draw to leave as penance booty.

J. Albers · · Colorado · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 1,926

Purgatory for using a quicklink? whatever. Quicklinks are $2. That's what I use. And no, I don't think they are hard to deal with for the next climber, at least not any harder than the occasional locker left behind or quicklinks and chains at the anchor.

edit: BrianSLC. your photo is compelling evidence for not leaving a quicklink, that is, if that wasn't the absolute worst looking quicklink I have EVER seen. I don't think that is common.

J. Albers · · Colorado · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 1,926

a little off topic, but, about the bolt in BrianSLC's photo.

I have seen a few of these around one of my local areas. The 'nut' is round and so is not screwed on. Is that some sort of pound in? If not, how does that bolt get installed? Anyone?

Derek Lawrence · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 695
J. Albers wrote:about the bolt in BrianSLC's photo...
Looks like a Petzel Long Life... Yes its a pound in.
Tits McGee · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 260

The important part about bailing (on any route) is once you are down - make sure you don't post about two weeks later asking for your bail gear back...

Pat McGinn · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 270

Screwlinks suck and are a pain to remove for the person climbing the route. Think of it this way, screwlinks cost the same as crappy ovals so... I've found bail biners and have left some. It's like the take a penny leave a penny thing at stores and shops.

Kevin Burns · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 0

Would it be a good idea to carry a couple nuts or cheaper cams in case you need to bail from a sport route and would rather not be lowered on a single bolt ? Even if you aren't a complete expert in placing Trad gear I would think the extra redundancy can't hurt. It is your life and mine is worth more than the price of a nut/cam, etc.

Jon B · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 105
Kevin Burns wrote:Would it be a good idea to carry a couple nuts or cheaper cams in case you need to bail from a sport route and would rather not be lowered on a single bolt ? Even if you aren't a complete expert in placing Trad gear I would think the extra redundancy can't hurt. It is your life and mine is worth more than the price of a nut/cam, etc.
Yes, absolutely!

Let me know where you plan on climbing too!
Dave Bohn aka "Old Fart" · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined May 2002 · Points: 285
Ian F. wrote: Let me know where you plan on climbing too!
Ladies and gentleman, sharpen your chisels.....
Jordan Ramey · · Calgary, Alberta · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 4,251

don't use screwlinks. That just screws the next guy. Biners are the same price.

Brandon R · · CA · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 178

Yeah, leaving a screwlink is really inconsiderate. They rust, can be really hard to unscrew, and they get in the way of clipping. Just leave a 'biner. They don't really cost that much, and you'll acquire quite a few of them over the years.

J. Albers · · Colorado · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 1,926
Brandon R. wrote:Yeah, leaving a screwlink is really inconsiderate. They rust, can be really hard to unscrew, and they get in the way of clipping. Just leave a 'biner. They don't really cost that much, and you'll acquire quite a few of them over the years.
blah blah blah.

Quicklinks are a lot cheaper than any biner. Over the years, I think I have left maybe one or two links (a long time ago at that). However, I have probably removed a half dozen or more, and boy, what a hardship it was getting them off. You are not 'screwing' anybody. Unless you are on some uber obscure route, the quicklink will be pilfered long before it gets a chance to rust.
Brian in SLC · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 21,711
J. Albers wrote: blah blah blah. Quicklinks are a lot cheaper than any biner. Over the years, I think I have left maybe one or two links (a long time ago at that). However, I have probably removed a half dozen or more, and boy, what a hardship it was getting them off. You are not 'screwing' anybody. Unless you are on some uber obscure route, the quicklink will be pilfered long before it gets a chance to rust.
Fixed link on bolt at Stone Mountain, NC.

Stone Mountain, NC.

Leave a draw or a biner, if nothing else, as penance.

Cheers!
J. Albers · · Colorado · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 1,926
Brian in SLC wrote: Stone Mountain, NC. Leave a draw or a biner, if nothing else, as penance. Cheers!
Yes Brian, I saw that photo the first time you posted it. As I said above, I have not left a quicklink in many years (perhaps I should be working harder to get in over my head, eh?). However, during that time I have seen many quicklinks and I have never seen one look like that rusted link in your picture.

It takes quite a while (read years) for a link to end up like the one in your photo (if it didn't, half the anchors I know of would be a total mess). Thus, on any route that gets even an ascent or two a year, the link will be taken long before it makes a mess like the one in the photo. Thus, for those folks who are leaving bail gear because they can't get to the top, then a quicklink should be just fine.
Brandon R · · CA · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 178
J. Albers wrote: blah blah blah. Quicklinks are a lot cheaper than any biner. Over the years, I think I have left maybe one or two links (a long time ago at that). However, I have probably removed a half dozen or more, and boy, what a hardship it was getting them off. You are not 'screwing' anybody. Unless you are on some uber obscure route, the quicklink will be pilfered long before it gets a chance to rust.
Okay my math olympiad friend. Let's say a cheap 'biner is $5 and a quicklink is $2. You say you've left about 2 quicklinks and taken about 6. That leaves you $8 in the black. If those were all 'biners, you'd be $20 in the black. Which is better economically for you?

A quicklink IS harder to get off a bolt than any carabiner. Especially if you're on lead and pumping out. I personally don't like having to clip a bolt with a quicklink underneath the draw.
Brian in SLC · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 21,711
J. Albers wrote:It takes quite a while (read years) for a link to end up like the one in your photo (if it didn't, half the anchors I know of would be a total mess).
Maybe in the dry desert of California, but, not in the Southeast. My bet is that link is less than two years old. Stuff rusts pretty quickly out there, which is why they went to the huge effort of placing those stainless longlife's.

Stuck quick links are a pain to remove, and, probably not super great to be clipping a biner over the top of. Make the bolt/hanger placement a bit less than optimal. If the hanger is at a crux (hence, the bail point...), then just being able to unclip a biner versus trying to unscrew a link probably would be the difference in a send versus hang. Might matter to someone.

If a link does get stuck and won't succumb to a wrench, then hauling a bolt cutter up to the crag would be a bummer.

I dunno. Just seems excessively obtrusive...given a few alternatives.
J. Albers · · Colorado · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 1,926
Brandon R. wrote: Okay my math olympiad friend. Let's say a cheap 'biner is $5 and a quicklink is $2. You say you've left about 2 quicklinks and taken about 6. That leaves you $8 in the black. If those were all 'biners, you'd be $20 in the black. Which is better economically for you? A quicklink IS harder to get off a bolt than any carabiner. Especially if you're on lead and pumping out. I personally don't like having to clip a bolt with a quicklink underneath the draw.
Yes, I don't like clipping a draw over the top of a biner/quicklink either; that is why you put your draw on UNDERNEATH the quicklink. No, its not hard to do on lead, even while onsighting. Economically I don't care. I never use bail gear I find for anything else than clipping my shoes to my pack.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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