ice lead falls?

ever taken a fall leading on ice? everybody i've ever talked to says,
"nope, never have, never plan too." well same here and that sounds all well and good but somebody's got to have fallen right? what happened? did the screws hold? did you use a screamer?

I fell leading ice while I was pulling a snowcapped bulge. Foot blew out while I was trying to step up onto the bulge and both tools pulled. Didn't hit anything but the rope on the way down, crampon snagged the rope and I broke my ankle, core shot the rope and deployed a screamer. I didn't plan on doing it either, but if nobody fell while ice climbing we wouldn't carry screws or rope up.

I too have fallen on ice, but many years ago. It was at Lincoln Falls(CO) and I was leading a pretty thin line. Put in a shorty Lowe tubular and clipped in with a Screamer. My recollection is that a foot came off, then a tool, then a classic barn door...I was off and out in a second. Alas, the screw sheared and the Screamer never deployed. I decked, thankfully on a gentle slope several feet below my totally freaked partner. Lucky, I used up one of my nine (c'mon, God, say it's 90!) lives. Seriously, it was a slap in the face for me: Ice protection is a different beast than rock. The medium is far more malleable. As always, just my opinion.
-Tom

I fell close to 100 ft ended up upside-down looking my belayer in the eyes. Was climbing 1/4" of ice with feet tools in frozen crack. I reached the top of the pitch and was pulling over when my feet popped. Pulled gear from the crack (ice and older style BD cams don't mix well)
was stopped by a 10cm screw in a blob of ice with a screamer attached. The Screamer fully opened-no stitches left in-tack. The screw held. I was also using double ropes which I think helped with the impact. I climbed back up got my screw and went home for the day.

For those of you keeping score at home, of the 3 reported lead falls we've recorded one broken ankle, one deck, and one 100 foot fall...

Good on you guys, but I think I'll stick to stone!

Been there. Done that. Fell about 25 feet on Firehouse Falls in Vail when the ice was very chandeliered and tool placements were very hard to get. I bent a screw, but it held. I went back up and sent it.

The best part was trying to place that same, bent, screw on the next pitch. It went in kind of strangely, but what are you going to do?

Bruce

Dusty wrote:For those of you keeping score at home, of the 3 reported lead falls we've recorded one broken ankle, one deck, and one 100 foot fall... Good on you guys, but I think I'll stick to stone!

All valid reasons to write a novel or something like that during the winter months. You guys are nuts. As Tom Patey said, "Ice is for pouring whisky on."

I've fallen on ice, screw held. My partner had just fallen on the same pitch, and refused to do any more leading that day. Bigger dude, bigger fall, and his screw held. I had nightmares all night that night. I don't talk about it more than that unless I have a beer in my hand...which I don't. :)

Sunny-D wrote:I fell close to 100 ft ended up upside-down looking my belayer in the eyes. Was climbing 1/4" of ice with feet tools in frozen crack. I reached the top of the pitch and was pulling over when my feet popped. Pulled gear from the crack (ice and older style BD cams don't mix well) was stopped by a 10cm screw in a blob of ice with a screamer attached. The Screamer fully opened-no stitches left in-tack. The screw held. I was also using double ropes which I think helped with the impact. I climbed back up got my screw and went home for the day.

Dusty wrote:For those of you keeping score at home, of the 3 reported lead falls we've recorded one broken ankle, one deck, and one 100 foot fall

Sunny-D wrote:The screw held.

Bruce Hildenbrand wrote: I bent a screw, but it held.

Bobby Hanson wrote:I've fallen on ice, screw held.

Bobby Hanson wrote: Holy crap, D! Was this in SLC?

If you want to keep an enjoyable vocation in ice climbing, you live by one simple idea (Maceyka's mastery of this terrain is without question):

Falling while leading is not an option.

Kev gave me another good one: Always protect the exit into changing terrain.

Leading ice is never to be taken lightly and there are few absolutes; Yes, screws are solid, but falling, not good; unless it's super-overhangey -- then it's just sporty & bolts anyway. Sure you got pro & a system, but it's a get hurt bad potential.

I seem to always be more than gracious at any mentor's or belayer's thought. Symbiosis at its highest level in partnership, I think. I have no ego on the sharp end of this.

But I gotta say, I love my body's position as I move through the improbable; alpine setting, even more so. (sorry, ice is a big turn on for me)

I notice another pattern from fellow ice-fallers. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that they pumped out and couldn't hold on anymore, the typical issue is that a foot blows or a tool placement blows due to inability to accurately assess ice conditions or foot placements. I believe this is the crux of leading moderate ice, assessing conditions and determining what sticks and crampon placements are bomber and can be trusted, and where you have to hack away to get to better ice or retreat.

Another factor that I think especially contributed to my fall was the fact that I tend to step a bit higher than I should. This habit I brought with me from rock climbing and I think if I would have made several smaller steps I would have been much better off. I have had to force myself to realize that there are many many more footholds when climbing ice than the obvious bulge at my thigh to step up on.

I do agree with Buff that when leading ice, the leader must not fall. In 16 years of rock climbing I have never taken a fall on trad gear (rested a few times, yes) and rarely take sport whips, so I am fairly risk-adverse when it comes to falling. The fall I took on ice was the biggest I've ever had and was completely unexpected. I suspect for most people who have fallen it is unexpected, and the only thing that you can do to prevent falls on ice is:

• become a master at reading ice conditions
• practice good technique while topping out bulges
• do not climb terrain much over your TR ability

I took one fall in the Ice Park quite a while back. I was stopping to place a screw and I must have pulled out a bit on the tool I was hanging from and off I went. It was kind of a cold Jan. day and it was hard to get good sticks since the ice would just dinner plate off. I whacked my placement pretty good. I knew it wasn't ideal but thought it would do for a quickie screw. Wrong.

Luckily, maybe since I fell outward, my body pivoted about 90 degrees and I ended up smacking my hip on a less vert section about 15 ft. below me, probably saving me from a couple of broken ankles.

Took a 20-footer in the Catskills at the end of last season. It was just my 4th or 5th lead and my technique was pretty bad but I hopped on a 3+.

Got pretty pumped and as I was pulling the final top-out I was too weak to put in a good stick, and the tool blew. I flipped upside down and ended up facing the ice. My chest took the brunt of the impact but apart from getting my breath knocked out of me I wasn't hurt.

My partner went up to finish the climb and reported that the screw didn't budge.

I have a relatively casual attitude towards taking falls on trad gear but I don't care to fall on ice ever again!

For the better part ot a decade I kicked dust ranted and raved the whole never fall ice and never fall in the mountains dictum. Well shit happens. So here are my 3 falls.

#1 "Ryan Pops His Cherry" The first pitch of "ovisight" in cody was teasing the ground and after about an hour of hmm and haaing I climbed the cone swung into the botton of the 40ft dagger and began rodeoing up it with both legs wrapped around it. After campusing about 10ft I finally got the ball up to kick in. Me feet felt secure so I loosened my grip to shake out and BANG! I was standing on top of the spray cone with my tools 15ft in the air... Lets just say I got lucky.

#2 "Ryan Makes an Ass of Himself" "The Good Looking One" in Hyalite was in awesome mixed shape. I'd just moved out onto the ice and placed one 13cm screw in a small patch below the main flow. I got my weight on that and it sheared with me on it. Screw held I was fine. It was my first ice climb with a guy that had won a climbing grant to go to AK with me. I'm really not that sketchy...

#3 "Ryan Gets Extremely Lucky" After weeks of lousy weather in AK my partner and I finally get a shot at this unclimbed wall we've been jonesin for. Now mind you we're living in an ice cave in a place where there is no radio reception and we have no sat phone. Anyway, it's march on a north wall, there is no ice just plastered snow. On our first attempt I fought over the schrund, then into this corner system. Well it got progressively harder like m6..m7..m8? and the gear got thinner and thinner. Well thankfully there was this mushroom on top of all this and you could see the opportunity for gear above it. So I went for it and just as I was reaching over the mushroom for some good firm neve the whole thing turned to dust. I ripped two pieces of gear to a nut which caught me just as I decked. 40ft ground fall in the mountains. The next day we tried a different system and put an awesome new line.

Don't fall wearing crampons. You'll hurt yourself, and you look like a total jackass. My advice for all ice climbers that have any intention of falling... wear brown undies.

20 Feet to the deck. Landed flat on my back. Got up and climbed out. 1 screw in, but it was about 10 feet below me, so it really didn't do anything. Haven't really led ice since though and this was more than 10 years ago.

I've fallen on ice one time. I've always believed in the "don't ever fall" rule but......this one was at the top of the Skylight in Ouray. After you've exited the chimney and then you have one final headwall that typically bakes in the sun. I placed a screw a few feet up it and climbed to the top. Instead of exiting out the lower angle left side I got cocky and headed up the middle steeper ground which topped out at a typical rounded bulge, sun rotted by this time. I never place tools close to one another so I was quite surprised when the entire top of the pitch sheared off with my arms spread accross it. I hit my left foot once on the way down. Landed on my back and started sliding head first for the Skylight chimney. I stopped myself just as the screw came tight with my head hanging into the chim. Got back up and finished it off. Partner never even knew I fell! I felt lucky as hell to not have a broken ankle. That came a few years later in a big fall in AK.

Mixed climbing is a different story and I associate it more to "time bomb" climbing. Your sure to fall if going for it on unknown mixed terrain. It's just a matter of time until a tool you thought was solid pops.

Kevin Cooper was climbing a route called Dirt Pimp in Redstone, CO a couple weekends ago. It's an overhanging dirty chimney about 60ft long up to a hanging dagger. Keep in mind that rock pro is suspect in Redstone. He get's onto the dagger which is in very tough conditions and is pulling around it probably going a bit fast as the pump comes on. He places a tool in slush and moves off it when it pops. He procedes to rip the first two equalized pieces below him when the rock blows out. This must have reoriented the "bomber" #2 Camalot below which catches him for a moment before ripping and sending him at least 50ft before his next cam caught him 10ft above the ground. Craziest fall I've seen and would have been disasterous if the next cam pulled. The Kevlar crash pad walked away and was leading more sick ice the next day. Just another day in the life of....

Yeah, don't fall!!

I would like to know from the people that fell on screws..

How did you place the screw... Straight in to the ice with no downwards angle or with the 10-15 degree downward angle?

How many people used screamers?