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beginner cliff--whaddyall think?

Original Post
Jon Ruland · · Tucson, AZ · Joined May 2007 · Points: 646

it's awesome that so many people offered to help develop easy/moderate climbing areas. instead of contacting you all individually, i thought i'd just start a new thread here.

so this is the nice little cliff eric was talking about in this thread :



it's the one right across the road from green slabs. i'd bet almost every single one of you has seen it but not given it a second thought.

so my first question to you all is, do you think it's worth it? my second question is of course, who is willing to help me?

it looks like we could squeeze in 4 or 5 routes in the 5.3-5.6 range, 35-45 feet in height--there's even kind of a crack system for a really, REALLY easy gear lead. setting up topropes without leading anything is doable, but it might be worth it to add a few lead bolts to a single route for convenience so a stronger climber could set up the top ropes in the span of a few minutes.

the cliff is south facing so it will be climbable on even the coldest days. the approach will take maybe 5 minutes, and despite having to cross the road i think the approach could be very "kid-friendly". here is the base of the cliff in relation to the road:



the base of the cliff will need a lot of dead brush to be cleared away. someone with children will have to tell me if it's kid-friendly, or what we need to do to make it kid-friendly. the only obstacle here i think would be the vegetation--much of which is dead anyway.

i would estimate with 2 people the total effort required would be 2-4 days. with more people, of course, it would take less time.

so, what do you all think?
Jim Gloeckler · · Denver, Colo. · Joined Jul 2004 · Points: 25

I do not live in the area, but I think that you could do better. 35 to 45 feet of 5.3 to 5.6 is free solo stuff for good climbers. And any bolts would IMO be a waste of time and hardware. Keep looking and you will find better.

Jimbo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,310

Go for it John. Once your done and people know about it, many will climb there.

I think if you do some stuff on the other formations on the same hillside you could get more than 5 routes.

Comfy and safe belay stances are a big concern if your thinking small kids will go there. So give that some real thought before you drill.

Brigette Beasley · · Monroe, WA · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 275

Sign me up to help on Saturdays.

Bawls E. Climber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 35

I think it's a great Idea. There are so few areas that are "kid" friendly. A couple of years ago I worked on developing and area for my kids to climb, it's off to one side of a popular climbing spot that no one used due to it being low angel. Throughout the project which took 6 weeks all I got was ridicule. Why are you wasting your time and money on an area that no one else wants to climb, was the most frequent question. I ended up with 7 routes ranging from 5.2-to 5.6 with a height between 45 to 65 feet, all could be set up for top rope.

When finished I started taking my boys and some of their friends (along with their non climbing parents)to use the new area. Within a few weeks more people started showing up to use the area. Some of them were from the same group that thought I was wasting my time and money developing this area.

So I say do it! People will use the area once word gets.

flynn · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2002 · Points: 25

As somebody who teaches climbing as part of a public high school class, I recommend you go ahead and do this. My crack climber side says don't bolt the cracks, but by all means set up this little cliff. It looks like quality climbing at easy grades, very difficult to find.

Beginners can learn here without being intimidated by the
'scene' and the people at more popular, more crowded areas.

The fact that these climbs are short makes them easy to set up with one rope, a real consideration if you have way more students than gear.

Do take care of the approach: it'll get trashed faster than anything else if it's used by people unaccustomed to careful, thoughtful (non-skid, non-shortcutting) hiking.

Have fun!

Jon Ruland · · Tucson, AZ · Joined May 2007 · Points: 646
Jim Gloeckler wrote:I do not live in the area, but I think that you could do better. 35 to 45 feet of 5.3 to 5.6 is free solo stuff for good climbers. And any bolts would IMO be a waste of time and hardware. Keep looking and you will find better.
haha awesome jim, you ever come down to tucson look me up and bring some of that good weed! =)

thanks for the support all. brigette--email sent.
RobR · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 10

Looks like a good spot to develop for TR. Maybe anchors that can be reached by walking around. Setting up sport routes seems a bad idea though, if gear is available. Also, because it is short and low angle most falls would end in decking on the ground or a ledge, even with lots of bolts. Best to have beginners TR this type of terrain until they are confident enough to not fall.

Rob

Joe Kreidel · · San Antonio, TX · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 1,495

Looks like a good beginner cliff, Jon. I don't know how to install hardware, but once you guys start doing that I'll be glad to go up there and help with other chores like cleaning loose rock and clearing a nice belay spot.

jbak x · · tucson, az · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 4,626
Jon Ruland · · Tucson, AZ · Joined May 2007 · Points: 646

heya john, this isn't bear slabs we're talking about. this is a tiny cliff just off the road. i checked it out on sunday and there is definitely no fixed hardware there. we'll be installing some though.

but if you were trying to give us some beta on an existing beginner cliff, then thanks! =)

are you going to be at the dry again on saturday? we've got a crew heading up there.

jbak x · · tucson, az · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 4,626

I wasn't sure if the cliff in question was Bear Slabs or not. I posted the page from the old Hut guide as a joke. As if I would be pissed if you messed with these old "classics". Actually I don't know anyone who has ever climbed at Bear Slabs. It looks and sounds like a pile.

But if there is room for a 2-pitch route there ("Bygone Days"), maybe you should check it out. Beginners might think that was pretty cool.

Jon Ruland · · Tucson, AZ · Joined May 2007 · Points: 646
jbaker wrote:I wasn't sure if the cliff in question was Bear Slabs or not. I posted the page from the old Hut guide as a joke. As if I would be pissed if you messed with these old "classics". Actually I don't know anyone who has ever climbed at Bear Slabs. It looks and sounds like a pile. But if there is room for a 2-pitch route there ("Bygone Days"), maybe you should check it out. Beginners might think that was pretty cool.
i was thinking about looking into it once this first tiny cliff is finished. i think bear slabs would be a small and very appropriate step up from the new cliff, and only 10 minutes' walk away.
Adam Block · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 1,180

Jon, I wish I would have gone out with you Sunday, if you wanna get up there this Sunday and work on clearing the bottom some I'm totally game. We can figure out some routes we think would be good lines and get some idea what we're going to need. I'm willing to kick $100 into the project, my money is super limited but I think I can get us all the bolts we need for free (I'll have to double check) so that will be of some help.

I'm free Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday so if anybody wants to head up there any of those days let me know.

John, was there room up top to build anchors so we can scope things out safely, clean some rock and so on?

Let me know what you need and count me in!

PS Sorry we didn't get a chance to meet up, I ended up taking out two climbers that had never been on the rock before. We'd talked last month and they were so excited to climb they wanted to get out the first day they woke up in Tucson.

Jim Gloeckler · · Denver, Colo. · Joined Jul 2004 · Points: 25
Jon Ruland wrote:
haha awesome jim, you ever come down to tucson look me up and bring some of that good weed! =)

Real funny guy! Looking for opinions and then when you don't get the answer that you wanted, you feel the need to be cute? Well develope the choss pile but don't think any good climber will give it many good write-ups. Seems to me that you could do better is all I was saying. And as for the weed comment; you can probably find that just as easily as I since you live in tuscon. After all, you are only about 1 hr. from the border. =)
Tradster · · Phoenix, AZ · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 0
Jim Gloeckler wrote:Jon Ruland wrote: haha awesome jim, you ever come down to tucson look me up and bring some of that good weed! =) Real funny guy! Looking for opinions and then when you don't get the answer that you wanted, you feel the need to be cute? Well develope the choss pile but don't think any good climber will give it many good write-ups. Seems to me that you could do better is all I was saying. And as for the weed comment; you can probably find that just as easily as I since you live in tuscon. After all, you are only about 1 hr. from the border. =)
You should read the thread a bit more carefully. It is about developing a cliff so kids can get some climbing experience in a nice controlled environment. I think it is a good idea. Then there is much less conflict between parents and kids and the rest of the climbing community. Mt Lemmon could use something like this. With your attitude, do us a favor and stay up in Colorado.
Brigette Beasley · · Monroe, WA · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 275
Jon Ruland wrote:heya john, this isn't bear slabs we're talking about.
You should call it Teddy Bear Slabs! ;)
Jon Ruland · · Tucson, AZ · Joined May 2007 · Points: 646
Brigette wrote: You should call it Teddy Bear Slabs! ;)
oh. my. god.
brigette, that is absolutely...
PERFECT!!!

the crag shall be called Teddy Bear Slabs, unless anyone objects.

well? anyone??
Jon Ruland · · Tucson, AZ · Joined May 2007 · Points: 646
Jim Gloeckler wrote:Jon Ruland wrote: haha awesome jim, you ever come down to tucson look me up and bring some of that good weed! =) Real funny guy! Looking for opinions and then when you don't get the answer that you wanted, you feel the need to be cute? Well develope the choss pile but don't think any good climber will give it many good write-ups. Seems to me that you could do better is all I was saying. And as for the weed comment; you can probably find that just as easily as I since you live in tuscon. After all, you are only about 1 hr. from the border. =)
i wasn't being cute, i seriously thought you were high because "beginner cliff" is right in the title. i'm fairly certain that LOTS of climbers toke up while browsing the MP threads. apparently you weren't, so my bad.
Jon Ruland · · Tucson, AZ · Joined May 2007 · Points: 646
Adam Block wrote:Jon, I wish I would have gone out with you Sunday, if you wanna get up there this Sunday and work on clearing the bottom some I'm totally game. We can figure out some routes we think would be good lines and get some idea what we're going to need. I'm willing to kick $100 into the project, my money is super limited but I think I can get us all the bolts we need for free (I'll have to double check) so that will be of some help. I'm free Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday so if anybody wants to head up there any of those days let me know. John, was there room up top to build anchors so we can scope things out safely, clean some rock and so on? Let me know what you need and count me in! PS Sorry we didn't get a chance to meet up, I ended up taking out two climbers that had never been on the rock before. We'd talked last month and they were so excited to climb they wanted to get out the first day they woke up in Tucson.
thanks for the offer of bolts, adam. i currently have 12 bolts + hangers laying around, which is most likely more than we will need, so i don't think additional bolts will be necessary.

i already sent you an email about meeting up to work on the cliff.
Jim Gloeckler · · Denver, Colo. · Joined Jul 2004 · Points: 25

If any of you folks read what Rob R said I think that you would understand where I'm comming from. T.R.'s would work there but as for sport routes, I don't think so. The thing has many ledges to hit even if it is bolted every 6 feet. I just mentioned that the rock pictured could probably be beat at many areas that have rock suitable for beginners. I am jazzed that you all are interested in developing a crag for beginners. It shows that you can give back to your community which I think is outstanding. I did not mean to have an attitude but after climbing for over 35 years, I thought that my opinion would be worth something more than a joke about pot. I have smoked plenty of reefers in my life having started well before most of you were born, but at present am taking a sabatical on that stuff until retirement. Maybe my climbing can improve without all of the paranoia involved with climbing while high. Anyhow, Tradster and anyone else that I upset with my imput; I am sorry I came off the way I did. Too much type A personality and Bi-polar and not enough "No Problem mon".

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Arizona & New Mexico
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