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How many other Trad Climbers out there do Sport to get Strong! I do!

Original Post
Matt Meuse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 665

All,

I started leading both Trad and Sport this year (Have about 20-30 trad leads (<= 5.7); 30+ Sport Leads(<= 5.10d).

My question to all is does leading hard sport make you a better trad climber? I say yes and here's why.

Sport doesn't do anything for improving your Trad head, but what it does do is it allows you to focus purely on becoming a better technical, stronger and more confident climber. Before being able to lead harder grades on Sport, I thought 5.6 Trad was going to be my limit for a while, however, now that I lead harder Sport, I think I can bump my Trad up safely another grade (Assuming that I continue to become smoother and more efficient with my gear placement.)

By no means am I Sport guy posting in the Trad forum. To all of you Sport haters out there, I consider myself a Trad guy first that does Sport purely to get stronger and to climb better.

PS: Over our cold, dead belay hands, shall we ever let 'them' bolt the Gunks!

Regards,
-Matt

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

i think sport climbing is good for your trad climbing, in general. you can generally get more pitches in during a day (ie volume), it gives you a good chance to push yourself with relatively good protection, etc. maybe not the best way to improve your desert crack climbing though (as i find out pretty much every first day of desert season).

Evan S · · Denver, Co · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 510

All forms of climbing make you stronger across the board. I consider the best climbers not to be super high end specialists in one discipline, but people who are just really good at everything, trad/sport/boulder/ice/mixed/aid/alpine.

NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60

I believe that climbing sport routes can help you to improve your physical climbing ability. IMHO, trad involves a MUCH greater level of mental intensity and technical knowledge (placing gear) than sport. Pushing harder in sport to improve your physical climbing ability is only one part of the equation. Sport climbing, and other types of physical training, do NOTHING to improve your gear placement ability (a huge part of trad climbing competency), and very little to improve your "head" for dealing with the mental intensity involved in climbing hard trad. To my mind, physical, mental and technical competency are required to be a "strong" trad climber.

All that being said... Like you, I train on sport routes and toprope and boulder and do a BUNCH of other training "stuff" as part of a systematic approach to improve my physical climbing ability in order to climb harder trad.

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

i definitely agree about it not improving your gear placement skills, or other technical skills. i think it can help mentally though. i find it pretty equally mentally taxing to climb very far above a bolt, knowing that there is a very high probability of falling on climbing at my limit as i do climbing above good gear on hard climbing, or climbing above poor gear on easier climbing. this will probably vary from person to person. i'm always amazed at how many people don't seem to know when they should be afraid ;)

Will Butler · · Lyons, CO · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 56

Completely agree. Climbing sport does two important things for me: 1. It gets me strong and 2. It gets me comfortable with taking big whips. Also, as you start to climb harder and harder trad routes many of them are quite sporty in nature and the skills you learn from sport climbing become quite applicable when plugging in gear.

tenesmus · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2004 · Points: 3,023

come back when you have 200 trad leads on the same aspect/style of cliff as the ones you sport climb on and the point will be moot.

I've used sport climbing to improve my trad climbing too. Its fun to have some of the simplicity of focusing on the movement rather than on whether the piece will hold. However, its recently occurred to me that when I just climb steeper trad I get even stronger.

One trick is improving your skill at gear placement. I certainly need to improve on that and its a really good idea to work on it every season. I bet if you can sport climb at .10d you're more likely afraid of gear. Go aid something on the same cliffs you want to climb trad on. Figure out what holds a bounce and what won't. Get efficient at gear and it'll change your whole approach to trad. You don't need any special gear for a simple crack. If you don't have aiders, use some trad draws to make etriers. Its the focus on the gear that you're there for. One number trad grade at least after 8 pitches of Aid.

Another classic method for getting stronger for Trad is bouldering on the same kind of stone you want to trad climb on.

Timothy Nolan · · Vermont · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 5

i enjoy doing both. Trad more, but i think sport climbing is fun.

Pat C · · Honolulu · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 45

Climbing is climbing. I see direct translation from sport to trad to bouldering for myself. even surfing for that matter. I'm willing to take certain risks, and that willingness transfers to every sport. I've got the same head on my shoulders no matter what I do, so... I can push just as hard in anything I want... now what the grade says is a different story.

So moral of the story is: fuck your ethics.

Am I coming off a little strong with that?

Matt Meuse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 665

Excellent perspectives from all. Honestly, I didn't really know what type of responses to expect, being a newer (but very passionate) climber. What I have gathered it that it sounds to me like we are all pretty much in agreement for the most part.

Before Trad or Sport specialists, we are 'climbers' above all and we are inspired to become better for whatever the reason.

Best Regards,
-Matt

Lee Hansche · · Allenstown, NH... and a van… · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 24,335

I like trad climbing more than any other dicipline... i sport climb cause its fun... if it makes me strong... bonus!

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Pat C wrote:Climbing is climbing. I see direct translation from sport to trad to bouldering for myself. even surfing for that matter. I'm willing to take certain risks, and that willingness transfers to every sport. I've got the same head on my shoulders no matter what I do, so... I can push just as hard in anything I want... now what the grade says is a different story. So moral of the story is: fuck your ethics. Am I coming off a little strong with that?
I like that. since a 5.8 gear climb at the gunks could translate to a 5.10+ on sport in other places I especially like your quote. climbing is fun whether you boulder, clip bolts or do crack. how about this - specializing is for grade whores.
Pat C · · Honolulu · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 45

hahaha ha, nice. agreed.

Jay Knower · · Plymouth, NH; Lander, WY · Joined Jul 2001 · Points: 6,036
Matt Meuse wrote:All, My question to all is does leading hard sport make you a better trad climber? I say yes and here's why. Sport doesn't do anything for improving your Trad head, but what it does do is it allows you to focus purely on becoming a better technical, stronger and more confident climber. Before being able to lead harder grades on Sport, I thought 5.6 Trad was going to be my limit for a while, however, now that I lead harder Sport, I think I can bump my Trad up safely another grade (Assuming that I continue to become smoother and more efficient with my gear placement.) By no means am I Sport guy posting in the Trad forum. To all of you Sport haters out there, I consider myself a Trad guy first that does Sport purely to get stronger and to climb better. PS: Over our cold, dead belay hands, shall we ever let 'them' bolt the Gunks! Regards, -Matt
I wholeheartedly agree.
Mark Roth · · Boulder · Joined Jan 2008 · Points: 14,062
Matt Meuse wrote: PS: Over our cold, dead belay hands, shall we ever let 'them' bolt the Gunks! Regards, -Matt
Arrow was rap bolted in 1960. Maybe we should chop it??
Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118
Mark Roth wrote: Arrow was rap bolted in 1960. Maybe we should chop it??
Go ahead, I've already climbed it. I sure as hell wouldn't get on it again without those bolts though :)
saxfiend · · Decatur, GA · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,221
Jon H wrote: Go ahead, I've already climbed it. I sure as hell wouldn't get on it again without those bolts though :)
"Bolts?" There's only one bolt on Arrow. Y'all are making it sound like a sport climb!

JL
Mark Roth · · Boulder · Joined Jan 2008 · Points: 14,062

Of course I was kidding.... But there are at least 2 bolts. The guide book says 3 bolts, but I've never seen the third one (unless it counts the pin). Not exactly a sport climb, but it was put up like a modern sport climb. Cleaned and bolted on rappel. Only pointing out that not even the Gunks are safe from dubious tactics.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

Two bolts on Arrow. And it has been done without clipping either of them. In the winter. In mountain boots.

saxfiend · · Decatur, GA · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,221
rgold wrote:Two bolts on Arrow.
I stand corrected. I didn't remember anything but the bolt at the P2 crux.

rgold wrote:And it has been done without clipping either of them. In the winter. In mountain boots.
Impressive!

JL
Marc-Andre · · Squamish, B.C · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 805

I don't sport climb to get stronger.. I sport climb becasue I want to and its really fucking fun!

It does help with your Trad head, becasue when you can just give'r and fall on bolts that when you can start givin'er and falling on gear too. If you are scared on bolts than you will be teh suck on gear.

If you can place good gear and be okay falling on it then you can still puch it on gear. I lead about as hard on gear as I do on bolts.... and I fall on both.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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