Water resistant v. waterproof -- on the big rocks

I'm looking to do more serious alpine routes -- stuff in BC/Alberta, Washington, winter routes in Colorado, south america, maybe alaska.

Does anyone have experience with both pants like the Patagonia Guide Pants (softshell) and the Marmot Pre-cip pants("Hardshell" but breathable)? If I'm stuck in 30mph+ winds on the side of a mountain, am I going to want to facepalm for not getting hardshells?

I've been reading Extreme Alpinism by Mark Twight, but that information is getting outdated.

I lost my Marmot DriClime Windshirt, which was working pretty damn well -- but I can't find a similar jacket with a hood. Especially one that fits over a helmet.

Any advice is appreciated!

Look at the Rab Vapor-rise us.rab.uk.com/clothing/vapo… It is very similar to the Marmot driclime but tougher. they make a pant too. I have this jacket and love it.

For 99% of climbing uses and trips, I think you'll be better served by something not 100% waterproof on your legs, but something breathable. Prolonged periods of inactivity in driving rain will be unpleasant, but you likely wont be encountering these, and they'd be unpleasant anyway. Wet bushwhacking will likewise be arduous and you'll get soaked to the bone, but even Gore-Tex tops and bottoms wont seal out all the ways that water can get in, if you are really bashing through some wet brush.

If you'll be doing a lot of time with crampons on, consider a model with built-in crampon guards on the inner ankles, and tiedown loops or grommets to keep your pant cuffs low. I like these:

http://www.outdoorresearch.com/site/m_s_credo_pants.html

I have a pair of Precip pants. I've carried it around everywhere because they're light, in all conditions including ice climbing, fairly heavy rains and winds up 58 mph. They are waterproof NOT breathable so they are warm for the weight but since they are pants they vent well through the waist. I've had no problems with moisture building up inside. They've held up well so far but I could see them tearing on coarse rocks since they are relatively thin. There are other pants that are better made but it's a good all around choice.

The Precip jacket however will get wet, especially during high activity and is not a good choice for extended time away from a real shelter where you can dry it out. If you're going to be out for days staying in tents don't use the Precip jacket.

Colin, Ive had similar conflict with the best way to layer on those sorts of things. The best option to me is the one that keeps me driest first, warmest second as its easier to warm up when dry then when wet. I found that when Im having to sit through potentially cold and wet belays it pays to have a hard layer, but if you are looking at consistent, aerobic motion as you would get while moving solo in cold, snowy, but relatively dry conditions its best to just go softshell while keeping that extra hardshell layer in the pack so as not to end up soaked in sweat. Defintely I dont ever head into the mountains without some sort of hardshell, but the few times Ive actually ended up in them I was pretty psyched. I solod dreamweaver last spring in a driving snow storm wearing nothing but heavyish softshell over insulating layers. This was more of an experiment and I found that constantly moving kept me warm and dried out any areas that were getting overly soaked. Personal preference regardless. It pays to have some killer synthetic down layers for emergencies too.

Anyway, I hope you found a roommate man. I ended up down in Eldorado Springs. Lets do some climbing! Im definitely looking to get out on some winter alpine this season. 970 219 0932. Give a shout if you want to come down rope up!

Thanks for the replies!

Sunny, can you fit a helmet under the hood of that Rab jacket?

Blake, do those OR pants allow you to forego gaiters? Even in sloppy powder-covered talus fields? I've got bulky Koflach Degree boots, so I doubt the cuffs would fit over them.

Adam: Also, no roommate yet. It's my old roommate's problem to fill his sublease. Looks like he's paying rent in two places for November. Ouch.

I'm up for something friday until 4pm. After that I leave for a week of turkey slaughtering in the creek :)

Yeah a helmet fits under the hood. It really is an amazing jacket. I wear it as much as my soft shell. I like it better then my Marmot Driclime- It is much more durable. I have used it quite a bit for rock climbing and have been very pleased in how well it breaths. I have ice climbed in it and have been out back country skiing in heavy snow and was surprised how dry I stayed. Rab makes some really cool stuff. Their Event shells are great. I have a momentum jacket large red that is new that I need to get rid of. I have two don't ask...