Petite Grepon Beta

Guys and Gals,
A buddy of mine and I are taking a pilgrimage for my bachelor party to go out to UT and CO to climb and ride bikes for a week. Anyways I am wanting to do the Petite Grepon in mid October. Any recommendations on the climate at that time there. I also need some serious beta on it. Is the 2nd pitch protected at all and I take it the pitches are all around a full rope length. I have been reading reviews and other info but nothing really nails it down. The guidebook is pretty contrived. My biggest concern is the raps. I have read the guidebook but I have looked at the pics on here and there seems to be a bolted rap descent. Is this true? and is it straight forward or contrived. Just at much info as you can give would be awesome. We are going/planning to hike in a bivy at the Gash .. approx start time from there..etc.. or other suggestions welcome of course.

Thanks!
Rhett Burroughs
r_burroughs@hotmail.com

Rhett,

It'll likely be snowy in the park by mid October and days will be very short. You may need to climb it in crampons, as that point -- but there is the rare off chance the first snow might not hit by then.

You wouldn't really want to bivy in the Gash, but rather above sky pond, on the other side.

The rappels are well documented here on MP.

Avery

Edit to Add: Rossiter's beta and topos are pretty decent.

Mid October could be perfect for the Petit, or there could be a lot of snow on the approach, it depends on the weather. First, why bivy in the Gash? The approach to the S Face of the Petit is via Sky Pond (and you would want to bivy there). The first couple of pitches of the Petit are fairly easy (5.5) up into the chimney...if memory serves it protects well enough (can't necessarily sew it up but the climbing is on the easier side). Have you checked out the beta on this site? Good stuff there. The raps are bolted and fairly straightforward, but you have to keep an eye out for them.

mountainproject.com/v/color…

Jim Matt wrote:Mid October could be perfect for the Petit

Jim, I think your defn of 'perfect' for a rock climb may differ from mine. There is usually ice forming in the park around mid october.

awesome guys.. "perfect" eh? Sounds cold, but I like it. I couldn't find that link like you posted Jim. I appreciate it. What I got was just a sentences and a pic or two. What you gave me is what I was looking for on the route description. I hope it all goes well for us!

If I were planning a trip to CO from GA for the express purpose of climbing, I would plan to deal with a fair amount of snow at least above the Loch (above 10,000 ft) in mid October. To find it snow free would be a bonus, but don't plan on it.

If you are only going to be out here for a week, why risk 2-3 of those days for a climb that most likely will not be in season? Personally I would spend the whole time in the desert climbing towers around Castle valley. But hey, to each his own. At least you will not have to worry about traffic.

The Petite is great, and with it's South facing rock the climb may be dry. The approach and descent could be epic, plus the bivy WILL be cold. Make sure you check the current Park conditions here climbinglife.com before hiking up there.

BTW October is the perfect time to climb in the Black Canyon if you are looking for adventure.

Rhett - if you are having trouble with the link above, just use the search option up top for "Petit Grepon." That will get you to the MP description.

Also, the Gillett guidebook RMNP: High Peaks has a good description of the route, descent, and bivy options. Give it a shot.

Avery Nelson wrote: Jim, I think your defn of 'perfect' for a rock climb may differ from mine. There is usually ice forming in the park around mid october.

Yep, Avery...you're absolutely right. I just remember a time or two that Eli Helmuth has talked about going out there in late spring and early fall and described it as "perfect"...being south facing and having a relatively warm day could happen. But more likely, it will be cold...with a short day and quite a bit of snow on the approach. Perfect is subjective...I should have said, "it could be sunny, dry and 50 degrees at that time of year"..but it also could be 20 with cold, blowing snow!!

I'll be out there at about the same time of year, planning for some warmer days of climbing on the Flatirons, at Eldo, maybe at Lumpy, and some cold/mixed climbing on the N Face of Longs.

Were probably going to be out there around the 9th or 10th of Oct. I hear the trail is well marked .. could just sleep in the car and then hike in that way. Is this a possiblilty or is there bushwhacking involved, besides the snow. I would like to do headlamp in to sky pond .. bivy and wake up early and get a move on.

Kevin:
Yeah, I know.. desert towers sound good. Were doing two of them Ancient Art and Castleton and then heading to CO after we ride bikes to do a climb in RMNP (Petit) and then head to Capital Peak and throw up the Knife Ridge.. I doubt there will be snow up there.. atleast in the pics I have seen. But snow in RMNP.. I'm going to assume there will be a lot by the general consencous :)

Rhett Burroughs wrote:Were probably going to be out there around the 9th or 10th of Oct. I hear the trail is well marked .. could just sleep in the car and then hike in that way. Is this a possiblilty or is there bushwhacking involved, besides the snow.

The trail is very well worn...Class 1 from Glacier Gorge parking lot all of the way to Timberline Falls with class 2 spots up past the Falls to Sky Pond. There is a talus cone to ascend to the base of the Petit, but still only class 2. It is about 4.5 miles one-way (if you don't know the shortcut fire trail)...in the summer I usually start from the trailhead at 2:30 am to avoid storms...this should not be an issue in October, but there probably will be snow.

protrails.com/trail.php?tra…

The rangers may hassle you for parking overnight and sleeping in your car without a bivy permit.

That climb will be an adventure, for sure! Normal highs in Estes Park at that time of year are about 60 degrees...so count on at least 10 degrees cooler at Sky Pond. Normal overnight lows are in the low-30s in Estes...well below freezing up high.

Who knows how much snow there will be - Farmer's Almanac supposedly says a mild winter for the west - I've done the Petit twice - but never when there was much snow. Without snow the trail is fairly easy to follow - with a little route finding once you get on top of the waterfall, but I would think snow would either make it harder (if no one has hiked it yet) or easier if people have trekked up there before you.

The descent by rappel is fairly straightforward, rap off the northeast end of the summit block - pretty easy to find the rap rings - need two ropes - one of the rappels you have to walk along a big grassy ledge to the front of the wall and rappel in a notch - one rappel you have to look for the chains below a horn - which is slung with slings, I hopped off the rappel for this and clipped into the slings before climbing down around the horn, however with snow that might be tricky and you may want to stay in. The second to last rappel can be tricky because you almost have to fall off the end of your ropes onto the ledge (huge ledge - you'd have to roll pretty far to fall off), we used two 60's with pretty good stretch but maybe I was just too light (125 lbs).

Capitol could have more snow than RMNP in October. There have been avalanche fatalities early in the season in Colorado.
I summited N Maroon in September when a snow storm hit while I was high on the mtn.
Climbing the PG in October will be classic alpine!
Have Fun!

P.S. You might want to acclimatize your fingers (and feet) to cold by immersing them in ice water a few minutes at a time a couple times a day. Your body will grow an extra network of fine capillaries to adjust. When you start climbing alpine rock first thing in the morning, your fingers become so numb that you have to look to see what is going on with the holds. If your fingers are acclimated, after a bit the feeling comes back...also as the sun warms the rock. (I have been on an alpine route when cold carabiners would freeze to and hang from my wet hands)

Can someone please tell me how to find the "climber's shortcut/fire trail" to the Petit Grepon? I've never done this hike before and will be doing this at 3AM with my headlamp so please be as descriptive & specific as you can. Thanks in advance!

Suzy N wrote:Can someone please tell me how to find the "climber's shortcut/fire trail" to the Petit Grepon? I've never done this hike before and will be doing this at 3AM with my headlamp so please be as descriptive & specific as you can. Thanks in advance!

After turning left onto the main trail, you will pass a couple bridges within ~100yrds. Shortly after these bridges you will come up on some rock slabs on the right. The trail starts just to the left of a large boulder on the left side of these slabs.

Suzy N wrote:Can someone please tell me how to find the "climber's shortcut/fire trail" to the Petit Grepon? I've never done this hike before and will be doing this at 3AM with my headlamp so please be as descriptive & specific as you can. Thanks in advance!

I wouldn't bother. It saves 15 minutes at most, is an unpleasant hike at 3 am, and even with a detailed description, you're likely as not to get lost anyway and not save any time at all. When I lived in CO I generally only used it coming down, to avoid the crowds of tourists.

I've been on it dozens of times and I still doubt I could give you a good enough description to ensure that you won't get lost at 3 am.

Guy Humphrey wrote: After turning left onto the main trail, you will pass a couple bridges within ~100yrds. Shortly after these bridges you will come up on some rock slabs on the right. The trail starts just to the left of a large boulder on the left side of these slabs.

Sounds REALLY close to what I remembered. But yeah, you'd need arealy good headlamp.

Guy Humphrey wrote: After turning left onto the main trail, you will pass a couple bridges within ~100yrds. Shortly after these bridges you will come up on some rock slabs on the right. The trail starts just to the left of a large boulder on the left side of these slabs.

This is a good description. From the Glacier Gorge TH, you cross a total of four bridges. The third (first on the main trail) is a one-log bridge, but the fourth is rather wide and has two handrails. You can look for the slabs, but you can also take the fire trail right after the fourth bridge, on the right side of the main trail. The fire trail is initially a bit faint, but there's no bushwhacking. The two branches join after a very short distance.

Be prepared for snow.

Raps are pretty straight forward off the East side. Just keep an eye out for the next set of anchors as you descend.

Plan to start climbing at dawn if you can.

The fire trail will cut-off almost a mile each way...well worth finding it IMHO. These directions seem adequate. I've only gone 'the long way' once in more than 100 trips up this trail and it is painfully longer...hate to give away the fire trail shortcut beta as it has put me ahead of dozens of parties on the Petit over the years who have left the TH at the same time. Just gotta get up earlier I suppose!

The beta map here might help with the 'big picture': climbinglife.com/alpine-rou…

I was on the Petit last summer (for the only time) and I've never been in CO in October. Given that, a few thoughts:
-If you can get beta that the trail is open, think about an alpine (even midnight) start at the trailhead--you'll probably get as much rest and you won't have to hump all that junk up. If you give yourself enough time (remember the altitude, too) and are at the base at dawn, it's pretty much the same.
-I found as much gear on the first two pitches as I wanted. You may find ice or snow in the chimney, but I think it's pretty straightforward and probably still fun in crampons.
-If it was wet or icy, what would concern me the most is the slabby bit getting up to the crux corner. The gear is very thin there. once you're at the crux corner, you have gear to clip or--heaven forbid--yard on. Having said that, it is south facing, so...
-I found the top pitch or two kind of runout. You're also kind of on the east side, so it may be icier. Having said that, I seem to recall it as being kind of edgy, which would lend itself to crampons. Maybe someone else can confirm/deny this?
-We used the MP rappel description. We may have misread it, but I seem to recall that there was maybe 1 more rap than the desc. Still, though, all the critical points agreed with the directions and it was pretty smooth. It's a pretty good setup; keep your eyes open on the way down and you should have no problem.
-Kevin's idea about putting your hands in icewater sounds a little crackpot, but I work outside in the winter and my hands are often wet and icy, and I notice that I climb cold rock better and wear thinner gloves ice climbing than my partners, so I think he may be right on.
-As long as you're comfortable possibly getting a little scrappy in crampons, it sounds like a lot of fun. I'd like to hear how it goes!