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My mentor dumped me

Mike Lane · · AnCapistan · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 880

I love it when the OP starts a thread then disappears but it takes on a life of its own. So, Sen. Mitchell- is that madness at Colfax and Broadway done for the year? You need to spend the Summer up on the hill with us.

Avery N · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 650

Mike,

I'm not here to flame, just surprised with the old-style of thinking. Perhaps, also the '100% safe' part, too. Climbing is about accepted risks, and each deciding their own threshold for risk. If you want to always be 100% safe with no risk, that's fine -- but you may be stuck at home watching TV, or never leading.

The old adage 'the leader does not fall' doesn't entirely hold true today (except in ice climbing!). Gear has advanced, and with proper judgment and gear placement in good rock, a trad fall is as-safe or safer than falling on a bolt. Do you know the history of the bolt? Can you recognize it's length? Was it properly installed and torqued? You get the idea. When my gear is good (and you KNOW when your gear is good), I'd fall on gear any day, before bolts.

However, it is critical that the leader be absolutely confident in their gear and it's placement if they're going to fall on it. The gear has to be good if you might actually fall on it. Ultimately, knowing that only comes entirely with practice, practice, practice, and test, test, test (some of which are probably falls). I was a fall-minimalist before two years ago, and I've found that taking some falls has helped me considerably. I only had one fall (Hallets) that I wish I hadn't taken -- and my gear has held on every fall. That was never a question for me.

So, I trust my gear more now, and because of that I climb with a bit more confidence. And, when I know my gear is really good with clean-fall potential, I'm more inclined to go for it or push myself. Read some of Arno's material for more info.

To your point about choosing who to learn from... yes, choose carefully and get diverse exposure through multiple partners. So, if all your partners say "Don't ever fall on lead", it might be time to pick up some diverse partners. That being said, certain routes are better to fall on, than others. There are definitely 'no-fall' zones and climbs.

Hope this helps. Others might be able to explain better than me.

-Avery

Edit: Also, IMO -- we're a small community. No reason to jump on others around here -- if you have a problem with someone, just take it up with them or the OP, offline. We all sometimes jump into something when we shouldn't... nature of the web.

Shawn Mitchell · · Broomfield · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 250
The Iron Sausage wrote:I love it when the OP starts a thread then disappears but it takes on a life of its own. So, Sen. Mitchell- is that madness at Colfax and Broadway done for the year? You need to spend the Summer up on the hill with us.
Bring it, brother! Yeah, the damage is done.

Nice explanation, Avery. I agree with 92% of it. :)
Schwab · · South Dakota · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 55

Look at this original post and then go the the first reply and the last. This girl is looking for a partner, not a sermon. Why don't you guys take your safety/trad/fall arguments to another thread. This is under the "Partners" column, which means people are looking for climbing partners in a certain region. Not one post answers her question, which is whether you can meet up and climb. Jenny, I posted something similar for the Gunks a month ago and now have two good reliable climbing partners to go up with. I hope you find similar luck. Guys, answer the question or go to another thread for your debates.

Wayne DENSMORE · · Superior, CO · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 5

What is that rope running thru on Jay Knower's picture? Looks like the nylon sling part of a sport anchor, and not sure what the upper attachment is.

Avery N · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 650
Shawn Mitchell wrote: Avery. I agree with 92% of it. :)
I'll have to do better than that next time!

Schwab -- I'm pretty sure Jenny got her responses, but just incase -- we're just making sure it gets bumped to the top!
Shawn Mitchell · · Broomfield · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 250
Schwab wrote:Look at this original post and then go the the first reply and the last. This girl is looking for a partner, not a sermon. Why don't you guys take your safety/trad/fall arguments to another thread. This is under the "Partners" column, which means people are looking for climbing partners in a certain region. Not one post answers her question, which is whether you can meet up and climb. Jenny, I posted something similar for the Gunks a month ago and now have two good reliable climbing partners to go up with. I hope you find similar luck. Guys, answer the question or go to another thread for your debates.
Peace Schwab.
1) Drift is an honored MP feature.
2) So far, Jenny's gotten a couple offers to go out, one implied offer (guess she'll have to follow up with Denise) and a good suggestion about where to meet dozens of experienced climbers.
3) The discussion(s) about safety, styles, and attitudes is useful background for a learner. She could profitably read it, or sift through for the offers if she prefers not to.
4) New York, huh? :)
Mike Wysuph · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 5
Shawn Mitchell wrote:But the one year thing...yeah, that's a question.
That's THE question. In my pre-coffee haze I saw an inexperienced climber offer mentoring (what the OP said she wanted) and had to call it the way I saw it. If anything for the safety of Jenny V. Now that I think about it, Seth just wants to climb, plain and simple. Amen to that (more diverse partners for Jenny V). Just please stay away from multi-pitch hanging belays! ;-)

THANK YOU Avery for your post. Very informative and thanks for taking the time to express your view.

Very interesting, as I just got over the apprehension of weighting my anchors, so yes, practice practice practice, test test test. And I'm going to find an acceptable spot to fall on gear (backed up by bolt) this summer. I think that will help with my fear of doing so.

And yes, you're right, we are a small community. Sorry to everybody, Seth included, if my post came off a little snarky.
Shawn Mitchell · · Broomfield · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 250
JLP wrote:I'd qualify this argument by suggesting that if you are taking regular falls on 10- on gear early in your climbing career, you're probably kind of a dumbass. No offense - at least not too much. It takes several years to get to the point where you can reasonably fall on trad gear. It's just the nature of things. There's much to learn. In the earlier years, you should in fact focus on NOT falling - control, reading terrain, knowing when to down climb, knowing your limits, etc., because, frankly, unless you spend all your time at the Sport Park, taking trad falls is quite often lethal. That's right - you fall, you probably die or endup in the the hospital - on something as stupid as the Petit Grepon. This stratagy really only breaks down somewhere in 5.11 or harder, IMO, where most people are going to need a lot more gear per foot, routes tend to be steeper, and the climbers on such routes tend to be a lot more experienced.
Can't begrudge you your observations and opinions. But I disagree with just about everything you said. In my circle of about 10 friends from Orange County, California in the late 70's, early 80's, we all were pushing and falling on old-school gear within 12 months--max--of starting. From that group, I know of a cut chin, a mild concussion, and a broken ankle (and the ankle belonged to a 10-year veteran, injured when a fall yanked a fixed pin and produced a longer fall.)

I do agree with your implicit point that easier climbs tend to be lower angle and therefore present more injury hazards.
Rob Kepley · · Westminster, CO · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,005
Mike Wysuph wrote: One of my climbing partners hasn't taken a lead fall on gear in 12+ years.
Brotha, you ain't learning if you ain't falling
Avery N · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 650
Mike Wysuph wrote: I'm going to find an acceptable spot to fall on gear (backed up by bolt) this summer. I think that will help with my fear of doing so.
Alright... just be sure you know what's going on at that point (a 3 foot static fall can create seriously damaging forces!).

Have fun. Be safe.
Tits McGee · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 260
Ian F. wrote: I can't even believe you began to give someone shit. Your response to Seth implies that you have more years of experience, but the fact that you are scared to weight your own anchors, is rediculous. If you can't weight them then why even trust them with your partners life. You should stop trying to give people advice on the web, and start working on being a safer partner first.
I can't even believe you can't spell ridiculous - even with MP spell check - How about we keep it friendly?
Jenny V · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 40

SHIT BALLS there are a lot of posts here!!!! Some of them I have no idea what is going on....Others were truly helpful....all were entertaining!

ANYHOO....Thank you all for the VIVID conversations and the well-meant advice. Really, I just want to climb with someone who will be COOL and patient and COOL!!!! It really doesn't matter single/married/ male/female- BUT from my experiences the past year it DOES suck climbing with married guys- it's hard justify to your wife that you are out climbing with a chick! AND likewise (if I could find some good, competent, independent girl climbers) they are usually attached to a GUY- and It sucks being the 3rd wheel.
See my point?

You have all given me a lot to think about as I troll for partners on this site. Surely, it's a better idea than going to the bar to do so!
The safety advice is well taken, as the advice to not just have one partner.

Thank you.
now how do I make this all stop?!!! :) Or should we see how far out there this post will lead!!!

Mike Wysuph · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 5
Ian F. wrote: I can't even believe you began to give someone shit. Your response to Seth implies that you have more years of experience, but the fact that you are scared to weight your own anchors, is rediculous. If you can't weight them then why even trust them with your partners life. You should stop trying to give people advice on the web, and start working on being a safer partner first.
Sorry, but I don't see the correlation between my experience level and having an opinion.

I still believe that only in rare cases should someone with less than a year experience be mentoring a fellow new climber. Just reads as a recipe for disaster.

....and back to lurking. Much safer that way! Can I just say "sorry" again and we can move on?
Marc H · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 265
Jenny V wrote:Or should we see how far out there this post will lead!!!
Ding, ding, ding!!

Personally, I've checked back on this thread several times for entertainment. I hope it keeps going! :)

--Marc

Edit: I'm always look for partners during the week. Feel free to drop me a PM anytime if you're looking for a partner. "Cool" is quite subjective but I'm definitely safe and experienced.

I'll send a PM with contact info if you want to holler at me sometime.
Shawn Mitchell · · Broomfield · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 250
Mike Wysuph wrote: Sorry, but I don't see the correlation between my experience level and having an opinion. I still believe that only in rare cases should someone with less than a year experience be mentoring a fellow new climber. Just reads as a recipe for disaster. ....and back to lurking. Much safer that way! Can I just say "sorry" again and we can move on?
Mike, I thought you were gracious the first "sorry." Don't relegate yourself to lurking. It's like watching pitches without ever tying in!

Good luck on the partner hunt, Jenny.
SAL · · broomdigiddy · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 790

I like chocolate milkshakes. You too???

SAL · · broomdigiddy · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 790

so. yeah. Had a couple beers. Thought I'd chime in.

I know Seth. Probably better the most yall.

I agree he should not be offering to mentor someone with the time he has logged climbing.
I will argue though that if your too scared to take a ride then you need to stick to pimping plastic. Whips are part of pushing your limits. If you are not in to that then werd em up. Just do what you want. No need to jump on someone pushing less then 1 year into the game. Good for him for being as he likes to say, SIKED hahah

I whip constantly. I blow through ropes and gear faster then most. Am I dangerous. NO. I have a wife, kid, family blah blah. I whip cause i want to climb harder. I dont feel I am risking a whole lot as I know when falling is ok and not.

I think thats a bit judgmental is all blaming a kid for jumping gung ho.
Maybe he got a good first lesson!!!! ( I took the little fuker on his first trip outside :) :):)
HE'd probably crush most yall.
anyways.haha

Yall are right and he shouldnt be offering to mentor. Leave it at that. Unless your climbing with him. Dont worry about his tick list and page.
I am sure the OP can find someone to fit the bill.
Seth was just being nice i think.

Howdy dudey doooooo!!!

Toots Krumdick · · Sofa King, CO · Joined May 2009 · Points: 5

SAL you big stud, isn't it very early to be this deep in the beers?

seth0687 · · Fort Collins · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 375
SAL wrote:so. yeah. Had a couple beers. Thought I'd chime in. I know Seth. Probably better the most yall. I agree he should not be offering to mentor someone with the time he has logged climbing. I will argue though that if your too scared to take a ride then you need to stick to pimping plastic. Whips are part of pushing your limits. If you are not in to that then werd em up. Just do what you want. No need to jump on someone pushing less then 1 year into the game. Good for him for being as he likes to say, SIKED hahah I whip constantly. I blow through ropes and gear faster then most. Am I dangerous. NO. I have a wife, kid, family blah blah. I whip cause i want to climb harder. I dont feel I am risking a whole lot as I know when falling is ok and not. I think thats a bit judgmental is all blaming a kid for jumping gung ho. Maybe he got a good first lesson!!!! ( I took the little fuker on his first trip outside :) :):) HE'd probably crush most yall. anyways.haha Yall are right and he shouldnt be offering to mentor. Leave it at that. Unless your climbing with him. Dont worry about his tick list and page. I am sure the OP can find someone to fit the bill. Seth was just being nice i think. Howdy dudey doooooo!!!
To SAL and Denise Thank you. If you refer to my original post I want NOTHING to do with being a Mentor...hell I'd like one myself. I climb with lots of people some with more expirience then me and some with less. THey are all safe people though. SAL taught me just about everything I know and he spent alot of time working with me and rope gunning for me and I learned alot. I still suck at climbing and I can't climb that hard...but I try and I don't mind falling. I have taken a few falls only one bad. And I have never had a piece pop. I don't push other peoples limits just my own and never on commmiting multipitch routes of trad. Mike W. I don't know who you are but if you perhaps thought through your post before obliterating me online you would see I simply offered DENISE as a good female partner whom I trust and said I would be more then happy to get on some rock with her as well.

Please reread said post:

Jenny if I were you I would climb with Denise, I have personally climbed with her before and she not only cranks but is a super safe level headed person. If you can manage and Denise is game I'd go for it!!!!

Hope all is well for ya Denise, we gotta get out soon :).

On another note, I'm far from a Mentor, but my anchors aren't mank. If you want to climb shoot me an email....single, married, guy, girl, makes no difference, I just want to climb.


This post states I think she should climb with denise and that I am "far from a mentor"....

And by the way I would trust my life to Justin before anyone else regardless of his lack of fear falling....to date he was one of the best people I've ever climbed with!!!!
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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