BD Chaos or Arc'Teryx R320 Harness?

Trad and Sport mostly

Input and Opinions?

i have the bd chaos and i love it! i use it for everything...never had a problem with it and it is more comfortable at hanging belays than anything else i have ever worn

I love the Arc'teryx R320 and have been climbing on mine for over a year now. When comparing it to other harnesses, it definitely feels more freeing than the others. By that I mean that it is so light and comfortable, that you barely notice that you are wearing a harness at all, (more so in sport climbing than trad.) Arc'teryx has an entire line of harnesses, and the R320 is definately their all-arounder. It is comfortable, but still has plenty of room for racking when it comes to trad, (I have been up the Petit, Turkey Rocks, Vedauwoo, and I Creek and have never had a problem of having too little space.)

Although it might look skimpy (check out their alpine harness and sport harness) it feels plenty fine while hanging, (although if you plan on hanging a large amount, a more padded harness is preferable.) With adjustable/removable gear loops, no hassle autolocking buckle, bunjee leg loops, and wear indicators beneath the two tie in points and belay loop; I see no reason why not to get this harness other than the cost, (although the new BD chaos is nearly as much.)

It is up to you, but I can guaruntee you that you will instantly love the way the harness feels while climbing and make for a more enjoyable outing.

My 2 cents.

The new webbing on the Arc'teryx is unbelievable don't own one but i tried one out its amazing. If I hadn't just barely bought my Metolious I'd own one.

Dan Dalton wrote:I love the Arc'teryx R320 and have been climbing on mine for over a year now. When comparing it to other harnesses, it definitely feels more freeing than the others. By that I mean that it is so light and comfortable, that you barely notice that you are wearing a harness at all, (more so in sport climbing than trad.) Arc'teryx has an entire line of harnesses, and the R320 is definately their all-arounder. It is comfortable, but still has plenty of room for racking when it comes to trad, (I have been up the Petit, Turkey Rocks, Vedauwoo, and I Creek and have never had a problem of having too little space.) Although it might look skimpy (check out their alpine harness and sport harness) it feels plenty fine while hanging, (although if you plan on hanging a large amount, a more padded harness is preferable.) With adjustable/removable gear loops, no hassle autolocking buckle, bunjee leg loops, and wear indicators beneath the two tie in points and belay loop; I see no reason why not to get this harness other than the cost, (although the new BD chaos is nearly as much.) It is up to you, but I can guaruntee you that you will instantly love the way the harness feels while climbing and make for a more enjoyable outing. My 2 cents.

I second Dan. Been climbing in mine for a year and it is by far the best harness I've ever owned. I use it for everything except wall climbing.

I switched a few couple months ago from a BD harness (not the Chaos) to the R320. I'm psyched with it. The things I like about the Arc'teryx:

• big gear loops
• overall weight
• weight distribution

R320 Cons:

• poor tow loop: single, hard plastic D-ring
• single waist buckle

The things I liked about my BD harness:

• soft/large nylon tow loop
• double waist buckle

Hope that helps a little.

--Marc

I just ordered a few days ago a model of the new BD Chaos, which is looks more like the Arc'teryx harness then it dos the pervious model of Chaos. I will keep you posted on how it turns out.

bdel.com/gear/chaos.php

I have had the Arc'teryx R320 for six months and have only one complaint - the haul loop. Do not like the fact it has a plastic part as an attachment point. I use mine mostly for trad and it's been a dream. When I first started using it I was amazed as you feel like your climbing naked it's so light.

The only Chaos weakness I see are the molded gear loops which could be a problem in an off width or other tight situations.

Joseph P. Crotty wrote:I have had the Arc'teryx R320 for six months and have only one complaint - the haul loop. Do not like the fact it has a plastic part as an attachment point. I use mine mostly for trad and it's been a dream. When I first started using it I was amazed as you feel like your climbing naked it's so light. The only Chaos weakness I see are the molded gear loops which could be a problem in an off width or other tight situations.

I have heard this from many people. If you are so inclined, it would not be too hard to modify the haul loop by attaching a little webbing to the loop that the plastic runs through. The plastic piece is rated to around 500lbs and should more than be strong enough to trail a rope. That being said, it should not be used for hauling purposes or it will break!

Arc'teryx was unable to attach a full strength haul loop to the back due to the amount of stitching it would take, (which does not work well with the WARP strength technology, check out other harnesses and their loops, there is substancial padding around the area since the haul loop stitching is so bulky.) It went against the design of the harnesses, would add extra weight, and build bad habits (such as belaying the second from the haul loop or trying that crazy forward rap stuff.)

The Arc'teryx harness is a work of art. It is light weight and comfortable. The gear loops are LARGE - enough to load an entire rack of gear and slings on. The construction is quality utilizing the unique arc'teryx ability to eliminate seams where ever possible

The down side to the R320 (IMO) is durability...The connection point on the leg loop has shown premature wear on two different harnesses...And when the harness is loaded down, it tends to sag. I have to re tighten the waist if I have a full rack on it.

The chaos is comfortable - hanging and with a full rack on it...I like it a lot. 2 Things that bother me about it - BD sizes their harnesses too small and the gear loop connection at the waist barely lets you get a rope and locker into it...kinda bothersome on multipitch routes.

Summary -

Arc'teryx great in the pack plenty of room for gear - maybe too light weight

BD great comfort - too little room for rope and belay biner and girth hitch sling?

Hope that helps,
d

Thanks for everyone's opinion. I think I am going with the BD Chaos as it looks more comfortable for those hanging belays and has the better haul loop.

i tried on the chaos, and unless you've got some chicken legs (unless i have big legs), the none adjustable leg loops did not fly

Ohh great I have fat legs!

Monty wrote:i tried on the chaos, and unless you've got some chicken legs (unless i have big legs), the none adjustable leg loops did not fly

The Chaos' waist adjustment has a pretty narrow range too (much less than pretty much any other harness I've ever seen). I tried on an XL and a L at REI tonight. I had to cinch the XL waist down as far as it would go and it was still a bit loose (and I'm not in summer climbing shape yet). In size L, the leg loops were WAAAAYYY too tight for my manly thighs :^D

So I guess I'm going to have to pass on the new Chaos which is a bummer because hanging in it was super comfy and, while the design is similar to the Arcteryx, it seems to have a bit more structure which could mitigate the "sag" problem mentioned above when you have a full rack loaded on the loops. The Chaos haul loop is much better too. Used to be only Petzl that designed harnesses for chicken-legged Euro-trash. :^DDD

Manly thighs unite and send BD a message!

Monty wrote:i tried on the chaos, and unless you've got some chicken legs (unless i have big legs), the none adjustable leg loops did not fly

Yep, if you don't have skinny legs it might be a tough fit. On the large I had the stretchy aspect of the loop maxed out, making it ride up a little high. It was a shame since it IS a nice harness. One note as well, if you are a skier etc. and still plan to use the harness in winter, take in account for your legs "growing" during ski season.

doug s wrote:And when the harness is loaded down, it tends to sag. I have to re tighten the waist if I have a full rack on it. The chaos is comfortable - hanging and with a full rack on it...I like it a lot.

Every harness I have ever worn "sags" when you load too much rack on the harness. That's what shoulder gear slings are for, but that's a whole other separate post.

Exactly what happened when I tried it on. I decided to wait on the harness and replace my 12 year old sleeping bag. Marmot Helium rocks!

HoseBeats wrote:I'm with you guys on the leg loops of the Chaos. I just tried on a medium and large. The medium's leg loops just were way too small and the waist was a tad too small. On the large I had to cinch the waist all the way down as far as it would go. Who are the people they size these things off of? Midgets and pear shaped guys with chicken legs?

Dan Dalton wrote: I have heard this from many people. If you are so inclined, it would not be too hard to modify the haul loop by attaching a little webbing to the loop that the plastic runs through. The plastic piece is rated to around 500lbs and should more than be strong enough to trail a rope. That being said, it should not be used for hauling purposes or it will break! Arc'teryx was unable to attach a full strength haul loop to the back due to the amount of stitching it would take, (which does not work well with the WARP strength technology, check out other harnesses and their loops, there is substancial padding around the area since the haul loop stitching is so bulky.) It went against the design of the harnesses, would add extra weight, and build bad habits (such as belaying the second from the haul loop or trying that crazy forward rap stuff.)

I called arcteryx when I was in the harness market a year ago and they said that their gear loops were rated only to 11lbs and the rear attatchment loop only to 33lbs!!! I bought an X350A anyway and then put the waist belt of the harness through a mini sewn mammut sling which I keep centered in back by attatching it to the plastic loop via a zip tie. Viola! Full strength haul loop!

Bump for any more input on the sizing of the BD harness. Still a big problem? I have a size 32+ waist depending on layers and larger thighs, worth it to get the L? Also, how do ice clippers work on these new style of harnesses? Comfy or no? Thanks.

Anybody try on the new Chaos harness yet?