Anchors

JLP wrote:I think the anchors in the OP are overpriced, unservicable, and less redundant than cheaper alternatives.

Please elaborate; I recognize that "the best" setup is largely personal, so this isn't an attack, I just want your perspective.

They've been servicing me just fine; what is you issue with them? 2 bolt hangers, a rap ring, and a foot of chain for 12.95 doesn't seem all the more espensive than a couple bolt hangers and beefy rap links or piece of chain.

How do you figure it is less redundant?

Evan

Fuck man, why does every post have to turn into a pissing match. I appreciate all the feedback but how about saving the over-technical and personal slamming for somewhere else.

All these set ups that everyone has mentioned work fine. I've installed mainly chains (in various combos) and "sport" style (like the Fixe Sport Hooks, Cold Shuts if you will, and like those but they are overpriced IMO. I believe one can install a safe anchor setup for under $15.

Anyway, thanks, all. Keep the positive and helpful comments coming.

^^^I think I made it pretty clear that it wasn't a personal attack.

I am still curious as to JLP's aversion to these. I understand the "these aren't my favorite anchors" position but "unserviceable" and "I don't like them at all" are much stronger statements; statements that usually come from a significant personal experience. So, I am curious as to what makes him think this as I don't want to run into the same problems.

Matt,

Sorry if the discussion got sidetracked from your original question about the Fixe Trad Anchor:

I've used them for rap anchors in Eldorado Canyon in Colorado, and think they are fine for that use. The steel ring on this anchor is very strong (50 kN), but be aware that some climbers may not be comfortable with its lack of redundancy. I think this lack of comfort is irrational (a 50 kN ring is just not going to break), but that's the way it is. One experienced climber added a bolt and ring to a Fixe Trad Anchor to gain redundancy and peace of mind on a commonly used rap anchor in Eldorado. He was concerned that wear would eventually reduce the strength of the single ring and wanted a redundant setup to compensate for that.

However, I don't think Fixe Trad Anchors are the best alternative for anchors at the top of sport routes:

• It is more difficult to use this anchor to toprope through your own gear. Many sport climbers use two draws of equal length for toprope setups. This is simplest when you have two bolts in horizontal alignment. To do this with the Fixe Trad Anchor, you would have to clip both draws into the ring, have two draws of different lengths so you could clip one to the ring and one to the chain, or else come up with a sling-based toprope setup to allow attaching biners to the anchor at different heights.
• Clipping both draws into the ring might make some climbers uncomfortable, again due to the lack of redundancy with one ring instead of two. And the orientation of the draws would have the biners lying flat against the rock, and the rope possibly rubbing on the rock.
• Using a sling-based toprope setup with two attachment points at different heights takes more time to setup and equalize, and many sport climbers will not be equipped to do it if all they are carrying are quickdraws.

For these reasons, I feel that sport anchors with two bolts in horizontal alignment allow faster and simpler setup for toproping through your own gear, and are preferred over the Fixe Trad Anchor for that use.

If you like having bolts in a vertical alignment, then equipping them with two chains and quick links is probably a better solution than the Fixe Trad Anchor for sport routes. Is it easy to clip two quickdraws of the same length into the chains or quick links to create an equalized setup for toproping.

Evan1984 wrote:How do you figure it is less redundant? Evan

The lack of redundancy would be based on the fact that the ring is a single point failure. With these anchors I don't think that it's too big of a concern as the rings are very strong.

I don't think having 2 quick draws stacked on top of each other.. either parallel or perpendicular to the rock is that great of an anchor. lots of side to side or out and in movement could lead to an open gate scenario. If i couldn't make something work easily with either 2 QD's or 1-2 of the shoulder length slings that i might have on my harness then i'd be threading the anchor and TRing off of it. and not really feeling bad about it.

i'm a fan of side by side or at least have 2 chains ending in side by side links.

I don't see the advantage to having the single ring style for a sport route. cost or otherwise. The other set ups in this thread are easier to replace with many of the others.

if you like people coming up to your anchors and going "aww what a freaking pain in the ass" that's cool.

I would have to agree with Ron on the horizontal alignment of bolts for sport anchors. Many beginning sportsters only have quick draws of equal length from an online sport climbing package deal and a limited understanding of equalization. Make it easier for them. I usually use quick links hooked to biners or chain: biners for straight forward set-ups that might see a lot of action, chain for possible rope drag issues over ledges etc, and sometimes both. Those mussy hooks look like fine pieces though... two of those to lower off of probably equals one fixe ring for ridiculousy's—I mean redundancy's—sake. I have used metolius rap hangers for low visual impact anchors on trad lines; they are probably not the best for an often used sport area. Regardless of what you choose give it a good rock colored spray paint. I usually use a grey primer base coat, a rock color matching second round, and then a light speckling spritzer to it a natural look.

Here is an anchor I found today halfway up a cliff in the Poudre.
I guess it held once!

Rappel anchor found in Poudre Canyon

is that a pair of scisors?

Ron, good point on the hassle of rigging a TR setup on the Fixe trad anchor. I mainly climb sport and I know I never carry a sling on my harness along with with my quick draws.

Looks like I'll go with what I've used before. Thanks for the input.

I too prefer the side-by-side bolt configuration for sport, when possible. It's easy to set up TRs and it's easily replaceable. One of the things I don't like about the Fixe Trad Anchor for sport is that what do you do when it's time to replace the ring. It's a lot easier to carry a wrench to open up a quick-link than bringing up a hack saw or bolt cutter to replace a ring. However, I do make regular use of vertically oriented anchors for sport climbs when the rock dictates it. Just the other day I was putting an anchor in on a new climb and the rock was just kind of "funky" with weird bulges and such that made it hard to get a nice side-by-side setup. Hence, I used a vertical orientation. When I do I typically use a Fixe Ring Anchor or a regular hanger with a link and rap ring on the bottom. And, on the top I use a regular hanger with a link and chain to equalize with the bottom. If it's really high traffic I put a link on the bottom of the chain so it's easily replaceable and a little thicker than the chain. The Fixe Ring Anchor can be nice for the bottom hanger because it's still possible to clip into it at multiple points but it's even easier to do so with a regular hanger and a link and ring.