Retrobolting Ethics

I recently noticed some established trad lines in local areas with new bolts at cruxes and anchors for rapping. These routes previously had no bolts and only slings for rapping. Is this retrobolting? I thought re-equiping old bolts and not adding new ones was retro. Since the line has already been established via cleaner ethics should it be restored?

While adding bolts for protection on cruxes seems pretty lame, sometimes land managers prefer bolted rap anchors as opposed to slings for visual impact issues. I personally think a rock colored bolted rap anchor is a much safer and sustainable set up than a nasty rat's nest of neon tat.

Your right. I don't mind bolts protecting a climbs belays. As for mid pitch bolts I figure replacing an old 1/4 inch bolt with a new 3/4 power bolt is ok. It will last longer and give every climber the safety that the leader once felt on that fresh 1/4 bolt some 30 years ago. What about adding bolts on climbs with anonymous FA's

RyRy wrote:Your right. IAs for mid pitch bolts I figure replacing an old 1/4 inch bolt with a new 3/4 power bolt is ok.

WOW!!! 3/4 inch bolts???

RyRy wrote:I recently noticed some established trad lines in local areas with new bolts at cruxes and anchors for rapping

What areas?

i heard some gossip about something like this occuring at table.

Jennifer Hare wrote:i heard some gossip about something like this occuring at table.

If you compare the old guidebook to the current situation, you'll see that there have been quite a few routes that have added bolts. Still enjoy climbing there. It beats the gym after work. Table is what it is...

Bryan Gall wrote:I personally think a rock colored bolted rap anchor is a much safer and sustainable set up than a nasty rat's nest of neon tat.

Amen.

John, you are dead on. I don't think you will find many people that will disagree with you on this. BTW it is good karma to remove a nest of slings before adding your own sling.

John Langston wrote: I've found those who tote power drills to the crags disagree.

Yeah, they are out there. But it is a small world and they can be hunted down.
In the meantime, threads like this go a long way toward education.

John Langston wrote:I would consider it the first shot fired in a bolt war.

'The Bolt heard around the world' I agree with you as well John. It just seems like it almost defeats the purpose of clean climbing though. To me there isn't much difference between a few bolts and a completely bolted sport route. I think leaving it up to the FA would be a good general rule though.

are all the Bolts in question in places that could not protected by other means or are they being bolted simply for convenience ? Maybe I missed that or I'm just not familar enough with the Idea.

If it comes down to sheer safety Then a bolt is better than being in serious trouble I suppose.

That is a crime but, like you said you could get flamed. I think there's quite a few people out there that could watch you bolt that crux on your route and think there's no difference between that and bolting the whole route from an ethics standpoint. I suppose I'm one of them to a certain extent. If there's absolutely no other alternative to safely protect a section of a route a bolt is justifiable.

I apologize for being wishy washy I should probably read into a situation more thoroughly before I offer up an Opinion.

Is this route of yours viewable on MP or is it still hush hush?

I trust you on it being necessary and, it's your right as the FA in my my mind anyways to put it there. I was just curious as to what your route was like.

Thank you all first off. John L. I believe you are right on the button. I have seen routes edited in Dream/Boulder and Table.
Side Note: China Doll has been climbed and worked on trad lead. The bolts for sporting it are all in bad positions and mar the line. I approve the anchors for working the route toprope. Its a fully protected trad route, maybe one of our hardest. Y should one leave bolts no one climbs on.

I don't care much for Table Mtn. But many routes I did there 10 years ago trad now have bolts every 3 feet.

I believe in bolting for safety, but NEVER where gear can be placed. A trad line with one bolt (or even a couple) is still a trad line, just a safer one.
I'm a little put off by the sparse bolts on 'Sport' routes at JTree. However, I'm okay with their ethic of no rap-bolting, so I understand the sparsity. I do think all those towers should be retro bolted with safe new anchors for getting off without damaging your rope.
I enjoy well-bolted Rumney, NH where you can push yourself to your limit without fear of dieing.
Climbs with an R or X rating are not usually classic climbs that everyone enjoys doing. So I say, if you are going to bolt a sport climb, make it safe and enjoyable, with a little spice to it.