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It just seems that airing a rumor like this on the internet is in bad judgment and poor taste. If you have friends who work for them why wouldn't you just ask them in person first? If its true then they were lame. But why not make sure before asking they way you are?

Killis I have not ever really understood why anybody who is a real climber would want to pay anybody anything just to stand around and hear them talk about climbing.
If you wanted to contribute financially to benefit climbing, why not just join the access fund or make a contribution.
Clinics are OK I guess but I always seem to get better at climbing by spending more time doing it and less time talking about it.

Killis,

I've worked the event for a long time. I've been managing the athletes and guides who come to town for the event and working with the BLM to create a list of appropriate crags for the event. I've also been a go-between for the LVCLC over the years at the event. In any case, I have the inside scoop...

Yes, SMR will not allow them to camp there this year, but it's not because of something Mountain Gear did. Instead, it has to do with a few bad apples who attended the Rendezvous last year.

Somebody broke into one of the historic houses last year and left a RRR water bottle. This was strike one.

Another large group gathered in the parking lot late at night and built a fire. When asked to disperse by Mountain Gear officials and people from SMR, they refused. This was strike two and three.

The event coordinators at Mountain Gear offered to hire full time security for the 2009 RRR, but SMR still refused to allow camping at the event. It didn't matter how much money or resources -- which Mountain Gear has a lot of -- that they threw at the people at SMR... The bad experiences that they had last year, which were due to a small handful of people, really turned them off to camping...

Jason

TedV wrote:Killis I have not ever really understood why anybody who is a real climber would want to pay anybody anything just to stand around and hear them talk about climbing. If you wanted to contribute financially to benefit climbing, why not just join the access fund or make a contribution. Clinics are OK I guess but I always seem to get better at climbing by spending more time doing it and less time talking about it.

If you look at the list of clinics. Most of them are stated for beginners. Cool thing is they have advanced clinics too. Big wall speed climbing with Ammon and so on...

If you are to good for a clinic don't take it. Just make a donation :)

Although some folks may want to sign up for my intro to sport climbing as a lot of "good climbers" at the crags this year that could use a little updating on thier saftey practices :) I have seen some real goobers that may be able to crawl up a 5.11 but could not make or clean a real anchor safely if they had "learn to rock climb" in their back pocket.

Anyways. Its a great place for folks to come and learn or refresh fundementals of climbing and have a good time.

Its a cool event. and of course based on last years instances changes had to be made. Maybe they need to add a climbing ethics 101 or how not to be dumb ass to the list of clinics. Seems like more climbers could use this than anything else on the list.

and I dont think dirty hippies know what REI toothpaste is. Or toothpaste in general. :)

Happy climbing.
See you at RRR.

For the record, the Access Fund received over $8000 in support from Mountain Gear through the 2008 Red Rock Rendezvous. 43 people joined the Access Fund at the event in 2008, 62 did in 2007. We also receive corporate financial support from Mountain Gear and benefit from their support of UClimb, which generates many memberships every year. Paul Fish, president of Mountain Gear, serves on the Access Fund board and has been very generous with both his time and money over the years. Paul is a lifelong climber and originally started the company from his living room. His company remains committed to serving the climbing community and their customer base through corporate philanthropy. The Access Fund is very appreciative of the support we receive from Mountain Gear.

Brady Robinson
Executive Director
Access Fund

Also for the record, Mountain Gear came through just fine with support for the ASCA from the RRR '08, as it has every year. This year was a $2000 check, and we received plenty of cash donations as well at the booth. Not as much as the AF to be sure, but we're tiny and the AF is big, and it's a huge chunk of the total ASCA income for the year - check plus cash raised more than 10% of our entire yearly income. Besides, the AF needs the money - as I like to tell people, what's the point in replacing bolts if the climbing areas get closed?

Mountain Gear has always been super cool about the whole event. It's a shame that a few people ruined the convenient camping for the rest of us.

Greg Barnes, Director ASCA

PS For the corporate-bad-guy-nay-sayers - I'm pretty sure that Mgear doesn't even break even on the RRR, let alone make out like bandits.

This is coming from a "no body", Im not sponsered, I dont get paid to play nor am I rich by any means however, - I have to say how disappointed I am to hear all of this. Coming from Arizona every year, I bring newbies and oldies alike to this every year and we show our support in paying just to meet up with old climbing friends and meet new ones, and occasionally rub elbows with good people like Ammon, Cedar, and Chris Mac. Its unfortunate that a few selfish, uncontrollable people, most likely drunk, are going to spoil the oppurtunity for climbers to meet and associate in this environment. Its a sad state of affairs when people cannot simply act human towards institutions such as this and think about the negativity that has untimately led to the demise of all the effforts that Paul and Co have put in and ... volunteers such as myself, offer ever year so that people are fed, garbage is picked up, and coffe mugs are received... This had the potential to generate a lot of positive light in this area for a climbing area that is used extensively and instead may push them to further scrutinize climbing activity in general. IMHO of course...

First and foremost, Mountain Gear made a very nice donation to the American Alpine Club after last year's rendezvous.

We at the AAC have always been pleased with our partnership with Mountain Gear. The Mountain Gear team comes to us every year with new ideas on how to improve their support for the AAC's efforts to inspire and support climbing in America.

Phil Powers
Executive Director
The American Alpine Club

Sounds to me like yet another negative, worthless thread by this Killis person/wanker. Maybe you Vegas folks can "find some room for him out in the desert" soil? Looks to be an average climber "at best" bitching about good people having a great time and trying they're best to live the dream. WTF. Trundle party for Killis!!!

Well MJW if they were all "good people" as you say then this thread really would never have been started.
While Killis may not be everybody's favorite poster he at least is a responsible member of the community here and isn't one of the miscreants that have caused this to be an issue.
Love him or hate him, his posts are usually topical and worth reading and not worthless "feel good," "look at how great I am" dribble.

"While Killis may not be everybody's favorite poster he at least is a responsible member of the community here and isn't one of the miscreants that have caused this to be an issue.
Love him or hate him, his posts are usually topical and worth reading and not worthless "feel good," "look at how great I am" dribble."

Killis Howard wrote:Word is that Mountain Gear oversold tickets last time leading to overcrowding at the Spring Mountain camping, which pissed off the Ranch people something fierce, especially as they didn't get paid extra for the 2x dirty hippies spitting their REI toothpaste all over the desert. Then, having not rectified that situation, Mgear proceeded to make off with the money that was earmarked for the ASCA, AF, and AAC.

Whoa there, did someone just call Killis "responsible"? I personally like Killis since his posts are entertaining and, if I'm at home posting on MP, I'm basically looking for entertainment. But dramatizing false rumors is hardly commendable behavior and probably detrimental to the climbing community.

hmm... I thought he was asking for clarification, but if he was dramatizing then by all means hang him from the highest yard arm.
Not that he is or isn't a responsible type person. I don't really know him after all, I just read his posts.

As someone who has worked RRR, the local climbing scene, done restoration/trail work at the SMR and has worked for the BLM. It is a sensitive area that is not suited to the needs of the RRR en masse. The first few years I attended the RRR it was fine. Everyone got along there was peace, harmony and toothpaste(disposed of in an LNT manner). I have no direct knowledge of the recent RRR, other than what has been ranted about. Jason M. has stated what seem to be the facts about the nixed camping at SMR. In land management you have many sides. The side that doesn't want to be managed, the side that wants regs. and controls put in place, and the side that likes the management until they personally piss them off. SMR has had its toes stepped on, it is a historic site important to the development/proliferation of southern Nevada(you can argue that SN doesn't need to exist thats another thread.) if someone walks in and does something that is clearly against the rules and a. breaks into a historic site b. starts a fire on the ranch property, then they should be banned. Whatever entity or group may represented is gone done its that simple. Those who started the fire obviously have no idea of the delicate fire situation within RRCNCA/SN. Breaking into a historic site on state property thats just that, they are quite lucky BLM/NSP law enforcement didn't show up. The bigger problem here beyond the camping issues, is the new wave of climbers in our world. People that don't understand the level of respect needed to climb well and true. Money in this budget cut society is paramount but there are other ways of swooning pissed off land mangers. Why not try offering some kind volunteer service/education aspect to the RRR. GOLDEN RULE PEOPLE!. Do you want me to break into your house and start a fire on your lawn. Think about that then complain about the lack of camping at SMR then complain to the BLM about the lack of camping in the RRCNCA overall.