Seeking beta: Zenyatta Entrada (arches) and West Side Story (fishers)

Hey I'm heading out to climb these 2 routes the weekend of the 8th, I seek a bit of advice.

So how hard is it to top out Zenyatta in a day? How about west side story in a day and replacing the rap bolts on road kill on the way down? (I have a cordless hammer drill which would speed the descent up)

Also what trickery should be expected, I've never climbed in the desert before, but my partner has so I'm looking for some tips to get me upto speed. I understand sometimes aiding in climbing shoes is the norm. I read about having to lasso fixed pins on zenyetta.
What will I need to know/expect to get these routes clean in a day?
(consider I've only done one C3 route and it was on granite and probly on the mellower side of C3, but I'm looking to learn and be challanged/ pushed near my limits)

I know sometimes the right rack is key, here is what I have:
1 set hybrid aliens upto yellow/red, single on the smallest alien, doubles on blue and green aliens, double yellow tcu's, double red tcu's, 1 red alien, 1 orange alien 2 .75's 1 purple alien, 1 #1 BD, 2 #2's BD, 2 #3's BD, #3.5, #4, #5, #6. Pink and red tricams 1 full set of hooks minus a large one. double #1 and #2 peckers for hand placements. double set blue and red lowe balls, single yellow lowe ball. single set of stoppers including RP's, 3 scream aids and a screamer.

My partner has probly about the same with an alpine assortment of pins.

anything that should be added, and what would the dream racks for each route be?

Last question, where can I find the best route descriptions, topos, and pictures of these routes?

Thanks!

For zenyatta HB offsets are crucial and the crux pitch took multiple yello HB brassies. lassoing pins; Didn't have to. We helped Sam replace the anchors on it and he also added a bolt to the notorious 2nd to last pitch where hooking was mandatory but the scars were getting rediculous. To do most desert wall style aid routes in a day, short fixing is the key for speed. ZE is a super classic and rapping is as easy as it gets. In the fishers a classic warm up is the king fisher. Cheers and good luck.- E

West Side Story is harder then Zenyatta. Zenyatta is pretty tame after the route was cleaned up. Do not bring a drill anywhere near arches. You can get down in two raps.

West side story you have to do a lot of funky free/aiding. Lots of mud climbing. Lots of old 1/4" inchers. The route has been cleaned up, do not bring hammer or drill. Read the route descriptions and comments on this site for specific beta. On West Side the rap is a pain in the ass.
-JEsse

Jesse the hammer/drill would be to avoid going back down WSS and instead replacing the rap/anchors on road kill which is a strait rap line. Like community service you know? I would never think of using it in arches.

Oh and I have already read everything about the 2 routes on this site, I am seeking more information and personal opinions/accounts and thoughts.

So what's the deal on short fixing? I'm not sure I quite understand what that means, I'm assuming it's like simul-climbing?.

Short fixing is more like roped solo'ing than simulclimbing. If you have not roped soloed before I would not bother with this technique. If you Bolting in the fishers is a different experience, you have soft dirt-hard dirt- to cobble stones everyone in a while. If you are going to do it, it would be great to do it with the 1/2" by at least 5" long bolts.

I personally found the hardest part of Zenyatta to be the last move to the anchors on the crux pitch. I recommend medium sized tricams and the orange alien. What made things really easy were the Dmm Alloy Offsets. They have them at pagan, and you will not be sorry you got them

I rope solo aid a fair amount actually, I just did my hardest aid lead this way.

Care to explain the process of short fixing to speed an aid ascent?

Oh and where is the pagen? where is the best place to attain topos/guide books with good descriptions etc. between denver and moab?

The bolts for road kill will be whatever Sam Lightner jr. supplies us with. ASCA grade I am assuming with chains most likely.

Anyone else ever climb either of these routes? More opinions welcome.
Thanks.

once the leader arrives at the belay, he pulls in all slack;
fixes the rope, starts soloing next pitch.
second cleans the pitch, arrives at the belay,
takes the leader on belay, and puts the gear on the tagline
finish the pitch just as usual

I will give you two kinds of bolts:
1/2 inch by 3 inch stainless five piece and half inch by 6 inch non stainless strike anchor. If the rock is soft you place the strike, if its hard the stainless. Chain will be the linnking.

Jason, I rope solo a lor and I have to tell you that topig out on Zenyatta in a day would be a prety big deal. It looks smaller than it is. Also, its fairly sustained and there are some traversy sections. I dont think there is too much trickery, but there are big reaches and lots of thin placements in a row.

So short fixing only works on pitches that are less then 100ft back to back? why is that faster then linking pitches? Just because it speeds up the cleaning process I guess. I'm assuming you do a change over atop the next pitch as your gonna be out of gear?

So zenyatta is a big deal in a day being less then 600 feet but west side story isn't as big a deal being 850 feet? My concern is we have friday, saturday and sunday but need to be back in colorado by monday. Sunday is more of a drive day I am guessing. Obviously free climbing the first pitch of zenyatta is another way to save some time.

If you do the free climb first pitch and link up the 3rd and 4th pitch, and are decently efficient you should be able to top out in a day pretty easy. I thought that West Side Story was a more legitimate two day escapade than Zenyatta.

Short Fixing works on any pitches that are less than 200 feet. YOu take up the slack and fix the rope and just climb the slack until you either run out of gear, rope, or your partner arrives. Once he arrives at the belay he can tag up all the gear he has cleaned so you can continue on. This method works best if you climb in blocks.

I think Sam thinks you are trying to solo Zenyatta.

Pagan in Downtown Moab in the Eddie McStiff Plaza.

The topo on Mountain project is the best topo as everything that you could currently buy describes the route before it was fixed up.

Speed climbing on mudrock......why doesn't this sound like such a good idea to me?

Don't under estimate the Fishers....or the time required to rebolt the descent. Rushing a rebolting job that you need to complete to reach the ground sound like the potential to fck up the rock and have a big epic.

Being your first desert aid climbs (right?) maybe it would be smart to focus on just one of the routes?

Dave Russell could give you beta on West Side....if you still have his number.

West side is a big deal for a party of two in one day.
Zenyatta is not so much, but a big deal for a soloist in a single day.

I think both towers is a reasonable goal.
I agree soloing ZE would be tough in a day as soloing is pretty slow but that's not the plan. If it's not bad to get ZE in a day then maybe we could get a start on WSS after ZE fix a few pitches and finish it on Saturday.

There is apparently a bivy ledge atop P5 on WSS so worst case we'll get up to pitch 5 and we could make due there if need be for Saturday night. then finish up Sunday and do the anchors in daylight on the way down. No need to F' up the rock or have an epic.

Safety first as the rock will always be there, but it's good to have ambition and more importantly a back up/bail plan.

Hey Kevin, I don't have daves # unfortunately. But it would be nice to have more first hand information. Maybe you could e-mail it to me.

If this is your first time climbing in the desert, I think tagging both of those towers and rebolting a rap route on Cottontail in two days would be a MAJOR accomplishment.

I'm not saying you can't do it. It's doable for sure but you will need to be fast as the days are getting short. I would second the advice about the offset nuts for ZE. I would also start on the tower that you want to climb the most.

Out of curiosity, how did you pick these two towers as your first routes in the desert? They aren't the most common starter routes for the area.

Can't wait to hear the report!
Good Luck!

Brad

Well basically I was looking for some aid to be challanged on, I've always heard of the fishers and started looking there, it was either WSS or the sun devil chimmney for the fishers. I came across ZE on the site and I think I remembered seeing people on it years ago while I was in arches. It supposedly HAD 2 C3 pitches so I thought that would be fair as I could lead one and my partner could lead the other. Alas there is only 1 now but I'm sure I will still get my hard aid fix between the 2 towers.

Other then that I have never climbed a tower so I wanted a grand entrance. A worthy accomplishment, I made a list of various things I was interested in (not all towers but also some wall type stuff in zion which I now realize is quite a bit further away) as a result they are what my partner wanted to do on my list.

The main reason for the hard routes to start with is basically I have a partner that feels comfortable upto A3 and none of my regular partners are even close to that. I feel competent enough for C3 and want to be tested more, but would not want to do that sort of thing with my less experienced partners on a big route. I'll save the easier stuff for when I'm breaking them in.

I'm thinking you are going to get worked... and I give you a 1 in 5 chance of doing both towers during your trip.

I second that, after recently spending some time in the Fishers I learned a couple of things:
1. The rock in the Fishers does clean up quite nicely. However, all of the horror stories about the mud are true, especially on the non-trade routes (the trade routes being The Finger, Colo. Ridge, Sundevil, and Phantom Sprint.)
2. Learning to aid on sandstone takes a lot more time than you may think, figuring out which placements to trust is a lot more tricky than on granite.

Good luck-and cheers to Sam and the ASCA for all of your hard work!

For what it's worth, personally I would suggest Phantom Sprint on Echo over West Side Story if you haven't climbed in the Fishers before. Both are great routes, but West Side Story is a significantly more involved, funky, and serious undertaking. Phantom Sprint is a great line, straightforward, totally unique for the Fishers and gets you on top of a cool summit.

Paul

My advice would be the opposite... Just Z.E.
Its in the sun and its gotten cold here.
Honestly Jason, its a cool goal, but you are planning
a really big couple of routes for one weekend.
I dont know anyone who has done that in a weekend.

What's so bad about 2 towers over 3 days(Z.E. should go in a day and W.S.S. should take 2 or less, some have sent it in a day)? How cold are we talking? I have warm clothes. If we just did Z.E. I would feel un-fulfilled I think.

I think being on a trade route in the fishers kinda takes the adventure out of it(I want to know what all the hype is about), your not experiencing what the FA did. If I just wanted to bag a easy relatively clean summit in the fishers I would climb anchient art and call it good. The whole point is to prove I can handle bigger and better goals. I must say I was interested in sundevil but it was seriously a 50/50 toss up reguardless of the stars and rock cleanliness. My partner picked it and I was on board. I think it will be a genuine true fisher tower experience (bring on the mud). My partner seems to think the rock on Z.E. is probly worse then the rock in the fishers(under the mud I'm sure).

Seems it sould stack up to be a genuine learning experience and a real challange and after all that's a part of why we climb.
I also look forward to being a bit scared and out of my comfort zone, that's when you really learn alot. I'm excited to learn the art of mixing aid and free climbing as I have limited experience with that. Just more tricks of the trade.

Plus I'm hoping the "harsh intro" will make future routes on my list a bit easier and less spicy. so I will feel good taking my less experienced partners up them or maybe soloing them.(some of which are trade routes in the fishers IE the colorado arete, finger of fate, sun devil, anchient art etc.). I'm sure I will eventually tag all the classics but I just want a challange to start and see what it's all about and where I stand. Hell I would hope to get on some of the really hard aid in the future as long as I can hang with this.

Plus think about how wonderful IC and Wingate will be to experience after this.

I thought you only had 2 days.
It can be done.
We are talking 40's in the shade with freezing over night.