In defense of projects.

i try not to count the number of "tries". what does that really mean anyway? i dont think its a good gage.

for example, "6" tries on something over a period of 2 years is a little different than 6 tries over two consecutive days.

if i were to count "tries" i would only count the ones where i actually did.

EDIT: John, go send my new Wiled Horses route and let me know what you think of it. might not be much of a project for you, but I am trying to get a rating consensus.

Amazing that someone found a way to quote Ayn Rand on MP. Just don't blow up your project when you're finished ok.

this is the senseless forum.. if you want to make sence...dont come here.

lucaskrajnik wrote:this is the senseless forum.. if you want to make sence...dont come here.

Lucas, What about this thread doesn't make sense? It makes sense to me.

John Langston wrote: Only if you go send "Crumbling Reality", I'm also looking for a consensus.

i am trying to learn some of that harder o-dubb stuff. tried desiderata in the voo last weekend. have never done inverted ow before. maybe i will go check out CR eventually. there is a reason i dont own cams bigger than 3.5, except for a few big bros which i like.

EDIT: yikes! checked out your route description again. thanks for the offer, but i will pass for now.. ask me again in 15 years or so ;) nicely done, john.

John Langston wrote:I got on the Naked Kill the other day. Got all the moves clean on TR. With the position of where the first piece of pro is (above the crux), I'm thinking of headpointing the shit out of it and just freesoloing it. Might save me some effort.

awesome. i worked it ground up with spotters initially, there is a couple RPs at the start, and your first good piece is a yellow TCU (i fall tested it several times, thanks again peterman), after the first move. after that the gear is bomber. still have a good belay, because you can still deck at the first two pieces. i can give you more good gear beta if you want.

John Langston wrote:I was thinking of projecting Stuffed Wolf

me too! :)

John Langston wrote: position of where the first piece of pro is (above the crux), I'm thinking of headpointing the shit out of it and just freesoloing it.

we may have different views of the "crux", indeed low percentage insecure moves off the ground, but i personally think the crux is midway, establishing into the scoop.

Jay Knower wrote: Lucas, What about this thread doesn't make sense? It makes sense to me.

Jay Knower wrote: I don't understand...

Bob D'Antonio wrote:Adam wrote:I project plenty. I've done it enough to know that it takes less mental control, less fitness and less strength than doing a route on-sight or in a couple tries. That doesn't make much sense to me?

"Question is, at the end of the summer who is the better climber? If they both now decided to jump on another .13a, which climber do you think would be the first to succeed?"

This is highly debatable I think.

It probably could go either way. The point is you probably need to find a way to climb/train that works for you. If you hate projecting you might not have much success with that method. However, if you always give up quickly maybe you aren't pushing hard enough and need a proj. I don't think there is a black and white answer to that question.

Maybe sometimes in your climbing "career" you need to try each strategy.

Paul Hunnicutt wrote:"Question is, at the end of the summer who is the better climber? If they both now decided to jump on another .13a, which climber do you think would be the first to succeed?" This is highly debatable I think. It probably could go either way. The point is you probably need to find a way to climb/train that works for you. If you hate projecting you might not have much success with that method. However, if you always give up quickly maybe you aren't pushing hard enough and need a proj. I don't think there is a black and white answer to that question. Maybe sometimes in your climbing "career" you need to try each strategy.

...the questions is...can they project the new 13a

John Langston wrote: I see what looks to be a bomber #4 or 5 RP placement at the start. That with only a biner not a draw and a very attentive belay "should" keep you off the ground if you fall off the initial moves. I saw the yellow tcu/alien placement, I was only doing it on TR but felt like I'd rather be on the next set of holds/jams before filling it. If this finger feels better, I'll try it again on friday. Stuffed Wolf is good, it's got about a 5' that while aren't totally baffling are super low percentage and a little mysterious. So much more fun than working a route that is just a bunch of dyno's or steep jugs though. One of the better sport routes in the area imo.

you got it. i resorted to doing the start a little different, to be able to place that yellow high, and thus plugging up a finger lock, but was worth the safety, though harder. i fell on those rp placements (stack/equalize two of them) to test them on purpose and they held FWIW. but after i wired the start, i skipped those placements.

gonna try SW today i think. never been on it, and i have heard so much about it!

why havent we swapped belays yet, john? we should change that.
:)

Lucas, you did a good job of catching me in a contradiction (I'm sure it won't be the last time I contradict myself), but you have yet to answer my question: What about this thread doesn't make sense?

John Langston wrote:You interested in the Bishop finger crack or brothers in arms? Lord knows I am.

yes and yes.

Bob D'Antonio wrote: There is a new route on Tick Dome you might like. The Bishop Crack is easier than Brothers in Arms.

triple yes.

its on.

i will be in rifle this weekend. we should cross paths in the following weeks...
sent you an email.
-darren

Does projecting work in regards to red pointing hard routes? Yes, it absolutely does. Is climbing really hard routes important for everyone? Absolutely not. I know for me, I would have never accomplished my first V10 had I not spent two months on it, ripping tips and wiring moves.

I think climbers, in general, become really attached to their achievements. With that said, it seems like everyone will have their own approach, and their own style in regards to what they are trying to get out of climbing. For me, climbing is what I love to do. It is a big part of my life (my girlfriend can attest to that), and is always on my mind. For a long time, and when I was younger, all I cared about was ticking harder and harder routes, purely for the numbers. What I lost in the process was really getting "to know" the route. I think projecting routes is an awesome experience, where you get to learn many things about your mental and physical abilities. For me, I now looks for projects without a guide book. I look for asthetically pleasing lines, with a variety of moves. If it's hard, it will end up being a project.

I'd like to check out Stuffed wolf. I just finished my first 5.13 this past weeekend and would love to climb with some people who are pulling hard. Might be in CC this evening.