PLEASE. learn your rope management on the deck before getting on the rock

JulianM wrote:Any particular reason this 2+ year old thread got revived? Not questioning the relevance or value of the info, just curious.

If anything it reinforces the point that there is still potential for a serious accident over something that seems so un-importantly simple.

Keep in mind, that my former example that has been expounded upon, did indicate there was already initial instruction on the ground -- the question was: for hands-on field work, continue the instruction at the anchor together, or go ahead and separate if the partners have good visual & communication?

I've found the former (both together at the anchor) is a better teaching method, though it may be more uncomfortable. Still, a person will need to do it on their own, sooner or later -- nothing wrong with asking questions between partners & nothing should be considered a stupid question, either.

One thing you could do is setup a separate anchor for use with a secondary safety line that wouldn't interfere with the bolt anchor work if partners wanted to separate; but that's not as timely nor convenient & might not have gear if all you're doing is just sport climbing off of draws and using one rope.

As far as I know, Catslab is still not worked into the Clear Creek Cty greenbelt easement yet. Also, the fatal incident there some years back was not for lack of experience nor was it a matter of mis-communication or failure in the rigging, it was just an unfortunate oversight by the climber; it was dis-heartening for everyone.

William Dacier wrote: Reading up first is the way to go and NSFOD has good recommendations. Does anyone remember 'Basic Rockcraft' & 'Advanced Rockcraft' by Royal Robbins. Those were the text I learned from. Things were simpler back then.

Yep. I have both of those. Good books for describing, as you say, a simple, bold climbing style with the focus on NOT falling if at all possible. Back in those days, it was strictly an adventure to climb.

NSFOD, those were the ones I learned with. I'm curious as to why you call the info from these a "bold" climbing style. Are you saying that there are better techniques nowadays that are less bold, or is it just the change in equipment?

Scott M. Mossman wrote:NSFOD, those were the ones I learned with. I'm curious as to why you call the info from these a "bold" climbing style. Are you saying that there are better techniques nowadays that are less bold, or is it just the change in equipment?

I guess I'm just referring to the attempt to free climb things without all the modern gear we have now. I don't know, it's just a feeling I get when reading the accounts of ascents and looking at old pics from those days. Also, I've climbed routes put up by Robbins and many of those old climbers and looked down at the lead all nicely sewn up with a #5 Camalot, and TCUs, and a Lowe Ball in tiny placement protecting an otherwise really run-out section, and thought "now how would I feel right now if I were looking down at 40 feet of nothing below me and I had to make this insecure smear move to that jug?"

Yeah, you'd feel gripped, and that 5.10 route would probably be the hardest thing on the crag because anything thinner wouldn't take pro, and you wouldn't even think of bolting. But you'd look good in your white painter's pants, bandana, and lumberjack shirt!

Ian wrote:There were 4 guys gang-roping Cosmosis at Bell Buttress this weekend. 1 belayer and 3 guys climbing on the same rope at the same time. Once all three climbers got to the top, the belayer started climbing on what is left of the rope while another guy rapped on the other end of the rope. What a clusterf***!!

Is that frowned upon?

Enough said.

Nikolai Daiss-Fechner wrote:I agree that being shown on the ground how to do it is the way to go. That said, I just kinda climbed up and figured it out when I got there. Then again, my partner and I learned how to toprope and then lead with the trial and error method...Not recommended

I learned the same way. No bueno. I teach on the ground, usually in a garage, or at a gym. Anyplace that I can simulate an anchor. I also require the people I teach to be able to tie a figure8 with their eyes closed before I will take them climbing.

Justin Cantrall wrote: I guess I'm the one that revived it. Apparently, I didn't notice that it was an old thread.

I just realized that old threads stay on the first page of this forum for years. Not much traffic in here, I guess.

I definitely wasn't criticizing, Justin - a useful topic, no doubt.