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JimRat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 0

see sub

Joshua Balke · · Colorado Springs · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 260

Yes to both. Considering your asking these questions though I'd guess your experience is pretty minimal so I won't elaborate any more. Find a good mentor or atleast a good book.

Nate Oakes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 235

I see no reason why your cordalette won't work for a toprope anchor. So long as you follow the same anchor guidelines, you should be fine. That is, equalize your anchors, use at least two locking biners and make sure the gates are locked closed, watch the corners on the rock, etc. I've typically carried 1" tubular just because it's cheap and easy to knot up (don't know the name of the knot that ppl use for webbing that comes undone so easily) for travel.

Whole books have been written about this topic. I recommend John Long's book on Climbing Anchors, it's not hard to find. Definitely a worthwhile read, use the knowledge you find therein when building anchors.

brenta · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 75

Tape (including tubular webbing) is tested by pulling one strand (UIAA 103). Slings are tested by pulling the loop (UIAA 104). Hence, one has to be careful when comparing the ratings. One strand of a sling that breaks at 22 kN will hold a bit more than 11 kN.

Having said that, the tensile strength of an 8 mm cordelette is good enough for a top-rope anchor.

Mark Cushman · · Cumming, GA · Joined Sep 2006 · Points: 980
JimRat wrote:I'm just trying to learn if the cordalette can be used as quicker alternative to my normal webbing.
I think the best alternative to webbing for topropes is static line. This can usually be bought by the foot and you can be sure that you have a bombproof anchor. Stuff is crazy strong and resists abrasion very well, too.
Shawn Mitchell · · Broomfield · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 250

I don't get why JimRat is asking the question. And I don't get why people are giving hedged or qualified answers.

What could possibly be insufficient about a cordelette? It's good enough for a belay station on a multi-pitch. Used for a toprope, it faces forces that are more predictable, controlled, and lower. People may have other favorites. But to the question: will a cordelette serve, the answer seems to be a quick, unambiguous "Yes."

Actually, I guess that was Josh's answer, plus the caution in case JR was newish.

Mark Cushman · · Cumming, GA · Joined Sep 2006 · Points: 980
JimRat wrote: Do you mean something like this? rei.com/product/716226?cm_r…*productsNo5*Cords%20Slings%20and%20Webbing%20%20PMI%20Accessory%20Cord%20%207mm Even when considering cordalettes are pull tested as a loop, it still has a higher break rating than this stuff. That's what I don't get.
No, this stuff. Cordalette is fine when you are using it in a gear anchor - and if you were using a gear anchor as a toprope setup that would be just fine, too. Typically webbing is used around rocks, rock horns or most likely trees at the edge of a cliff to set up a toprope, and for that application either 1" tubular webbing or 7/16 (or 10mm+) static line can be used. I don't know the testing method for cordalette material, but a big honkin' piece of static line will not wear over edges, on tree bark or anything else very easily. It costs less than a dollar a foot, just a bit more than cordalette material (but much more than tubular webbing) and also allows you to use your cordalettes for cordalettes, not for sap-soaking toprope anchors.
Mark Cushman · · Cumming, GA · Joined Sep 2006 · Points: 980
JimRat wrote:Also, how do you guys that have a lot of experience generally set up your top ropes? Do you even worry about equalization?
This is with static line:

One hard point (figure 8 on bight)
One soft point (clove hitch with hard backup knot down the line)
BFK (double overhand) over edge with 2 lockers

You can adjust either the BFK or the clove hitch to move the top point or equalize.

If you are going to build a toprope anchor (or any anchor) why would you not worry about equalization?
Mike Soucy · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2006 · Points: 111

The reason that I've heard for preferring 1" tubular to cord on a toprope is related to abrasion.
Webbing will sit flat, while cord will roll on an edge, and if subjected to enough abrasion, could fail.
Larger diameter "anchor ropes", 10-11 mil, are fat enough to withstand this abrasion, cord might not be.
It is definitely situation dependent though. If you're equalizing a couple of pieces on a steep wall, abrasion may not be an issue, just be aware of the cord's potential to roll over edges.

David Eisenstadt · · orlando,florida · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 560

People use them for runners, so I think it'll be fine.

Ben Baird · · Boulder, CO · Joined May 2008 · Points: 10

Those 8 foot cords are pretty pricy and won't hold up well to abrasion for all we know they could be worthless after just a couple of uses as a toprope anchor.

Evan1984 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 30
JimRat wrote: Ok. That pretty much answers my question. Using a cordalette for a top rope is totally fine, just not what it's actually intended to do. But if I've got 3 bomber pieces close to eachother, it's fine to cordalette them and top rope on it.
Yes, as most have contended, cordie is fine. I find 7mm to be a good general purpose, life bearing size/strength ratio. I have several 20-50 ft pieces that I use on multi-pitcch, toprop rigging, slinging boulders/trees. I think(don't quote me) AMGA says 6mm is fine as well.

If toproping is a common activity for you, I think there are better alternatives. Cordalettes tend to wear quickly (several heavy use days on a toprope), I find it to be a kinky pain in longer lengths, and knots are harder to untie.

This static rope is a standard at many institutional climbing programs for its abrasion resistance, value, and strength:

rei.com/product/472013

This would be my personal choice if I was to setup topropes regularily. If using a true static line, I do as Mark does with the bunny ears:

"This is with static line:

One hard point (figure 8 on bight)
One soft point (clove hitch with hard backup knot down the line)
BFK (double overhand) over edge with 2 lockers

You can adjust either the BFK or the clove hitch to move the top point or equalize.

If you are going to build a toprope anchor (or any anchor) why would you not worry about equalization?"

Tubular webbing is an awesome value and handy for slinging trees/boulders. My complaint is that is hard to tie knots and untie.

This is just my perspective.

Cheers,
Evan
Erik Tullberg · · Colorado Springs · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 75
Ben Baird wrote:Those 8 foot cords are pretty pricy and won't hold up well to abrasion for all we know they could be worthless after just a couple of uses as a toprope anchor.
I have done so and have now climbed on it all season with no noticeable abrasion or loss of suppleness. I also use the 4 footers. They're much lighter and tidier than climbing with rope or 1" webbing. I equalize with a figure 8 . See page 176 of "Mountaineering" for his example with cordelette. The only difference is that I only use two anchors if they are fixed anchors.

Erik
Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145
JimRat wrote: The reason I posted this question is because I read somewhere that a cordalette is not ideal for top ropes where they will inevitably be taking multiple falls, and that didn't make any sense to me when I looked at the strength ratings.
The reason I see for beefier cords/static ropes as rigging is wear & tear from cyclical loadings as you intend to use it for top-roping over and over again for many days. Nylon is pretty flexible in absorbing energy.

The application you suggest isn't spelled out exactly, but typically, the cord is used to distribute an anticipated energy load between anchors. Top roping, you usually chose 2 bombproof anchors to rig from; as opposed to 3-4 rock/ice placements that could be marginal. So using a cord for top roping as long as the anchors are bombproof is a non-issue. You can also protect edges to preserve the condition of any rigging.

In suggesting multiple falls, you are talking about a safety factor. The safety factor is higher with the slings; but the ability to absorb energy is not. So which is the better anchor rigging for top roping? They are both adequate as long as their physical condition is good; that is what is important -- will the rigging hold the loads during their intended use.
Ty Gregory · · Salt Lake City · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 115
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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