worst 3 star rtes in the US
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someone asked me this and I came up with a few. |
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I agree with John that Kor Ingalls is pretty cool. Royal Arches didn't impress me all that much. But maybe that's because my partner was a beginner, we were racing the afternoon sun, and ended up sleeping--well, huddling and shivering--on top and went down North Dome (?) Gully next morning. |
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Disagree with WG, as I think it is a very nice climb. The pipe pitch is a little overrated, and so is the exposure, but it is fairly sustained from bottom to top with fun lines, good gear, good belays, and good views of the notch / ridge. Add in the fact that the face is east-facing, and you get some good opportunities for epics. |
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I agree that Royal Arches is overrated, although I had fun on the pendulum. I thought East Buttress of Middle Cathedral Rock was also too hyped up. The Nose on Looking Glass in NC also makes my list. Prince of Darkness at Red Rocks (and anything like it) is there too. |
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Do you mean 3 star climbs on a 3 star scale? Keep in mind this site uses a 4 star scale (I've never understood why). |
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Sergio P wrote:I would put Yellow Spur on my list, but I know that I'm in the minority on that choice. The top two pitches are great, but getting to them entails 3-4 pitches of 2 star climbing. That averages to under 3 stars in my mind.Agreed. I would go as far as to say that the easy 5.10, direct finish is the only worthwhile pitch on the entire route. |
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The Durrance Route @ Devil's Tower. |
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Sergio P wrote:I would put Yellow Spur on my list, but I know that I'm in the minority on that choice. The top two pitches are great, but getting to them entails 3-4 pitches of 2 star climbing. That averages to under 3 stars in my mind.Agreed, but I like the first pitch too (call me weird) and don't forget about the crowds. |
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ridgid stem wrote:someone asked me this and I came up with a few. Kor-Ingalls - Castleton DNB - Yosemite Whitney Gilman- Cannon I think they only get them because of the historic view. If they were done today no way would they get anywhere close to three stars.I have not done whitney Gilman in Cannon, but I have done the DNB, and I have done the Kor-Ingalls. Both routes multiple times. I would have to disagree that these are not absolutely amazing 3 star routes in my book. Seems so many people judge based on the quality of every single pitch, as I agree that can add up to the grand total of a 3 star route, I also think that the aesthetics of the line, the position of the route , the overall adventure of the summit and the journey to get there and especially back is what truly adds it up for me. Plus the first ascent history and style can contribute to my personal score. Not every Kor route is stacked and amazing the whole way, but the man had the eye for the obvious line. He was picking the plums and he took every pitch as part of the overall journey no matter what came his way as part of the line. In the winter people are the same way about ski descents, they judge a run based on snow conditions, I have become a terrain skier and I am more after the line and the position than the snow quality. Good snow is just a bonus, but there is no bad snow only bad skiers. At the same time with Rock routes I believe the line is the draw along with the position and the journey to get there. I don't want to climb choss all day, but on big routes there is almost always going to be some not so great climbing that is usually rewarded by an incredible line, as well as maybe that one incredible pitch. Quality rock and incredible pitches the whole way is a bonus. The DNB and the Kor Ingalls meet my personal prerequisites for 3 star climbing if you will. I don't really know why stars matter, I personally would just call anything that is worthy of the most stars a classic. If you really want to start a new thread for a different turn, you could say the Best 1 star routes in the US. As for the Yellow spur, I would say that every pitch is not absolutely amazing, but the line is striking, sticks out like a sore thumb, has incredible position and exposure, complete adventure for a a full round trip and as convenient as it gets for a route of it's length and grade. A true classic in my book and I would give it the maximum number of stars based on which ever scale you choose. |
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In regards the the first few posts, I thought the Kor-Ingalls was a crappy route. When we climbed it I had already done the North Face of Castleton and absolutely loved it, so I was really excited about the Kor-Ingalls, expecting it to be even better. However it was a real letdown. The only reason that route deserves any stars at all is because it climbs a cool tower in such a beautiful location, b/c IMHO the route itself sucks. |
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Mike wrote: The only reason that route deserves any stars at all is because it climbs a cool tower in such a beautiful location, b/c IMHO the route itself sucks. Just my 2 cents.Exactly my point and why I think it is a timeless classic. I too have climbed other routes on castleton, I have climbed on 3 sides of the formation. As mentioned not the best climbing on the Kor Ingalls and not stacked the whole way. But a cool tower in a beautiful location, the eye of the first ascent team for the weakness, and the moderate grade that allows recreational climbers to gain this incredible summit. It all adds up to me. A fully aesthetic experience and adventure. Agreed there are not stacked pitches and splitters like other tower lines in the valley, but nonetheless, a true classic. The star system is pretty lame and subjective, we all have our own opinions and criteria for what makes a classic in our own minds. I kind of wish guide books didn't give stars to keep some adventure climbing alive and well for the masses. If there were no star ratings it might disperse crowds more and spread people out. Plus less traveled routes might get done more often and could help with cleaning them up and possibly improving there star rating due to some traffic. |
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I have to agree about Royal Arches. Even with the Rotten Log in place, I thought it was just OK. I do believe that extra credit can and should be given to routes of historic significance, but this is a fun but just OK route. |
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JPVallone wrote: Exactly my point and why I think it is a timeless classic. I too have climbed other routes on castleton, I have climbed on 3 sides of the formation. As mentioned not the best climbing on the Kor Ingalls and not stacked the whole way...You make a good point, however, if Kor-Ingalls is truly a 3-star route, then what does that make the other, better routes up the same tower? 4 stars out of 3? If the North Face is 3 stars, then Kor-Ingals could surely be one star at most. Again, just my opinion. |
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I found the culp-bossier underwhelming |
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JPVallone wrote: The star system is pretty lame and subjective, we all have our own opinions and criteria for what makes a classic in our own minds. I kind of wish guide books didn't give stars to keep some adventure climbing alive and well for the masses. If there were no star ratings it might disperse crowds more and spread people out. Plus less traveled routes might get done more often and could help with cleaning them up and possibly improving there star rating due to some traffic.I agree with some of your statements that how you rate a route should be based on more then just the quality of every pitch. I agree that history, exposure, setting and personal experience effect people's opinion. I'm sure if I climbed the Yellow Spur with 2 naked playmates who showered me with beer at the top of the route my opinion might be a little different. Still, interesting history, great setting and personal experience doesn't mean that every route is worth climbing. If I watched a lame movie like Karate Kid III (yea this film does exist) on top of Castleton it doesn't make the film worthy of an Oscar. I personally love the star rating system. I think most people take into account all aspects of the climb before they form an opinion. I respect the users of this site and when opinions are averaged out on each route I think it forms a solid consensus. I also think that there are great routes that are only viewed as classic because of the variables beyond the quality of the climbing. For example, the Flatirons. Ive climbed and enjoyed each of them. I hope to repeat them many more times before I die. However, on the entire route I never think wow, that was a really cool move. |
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Sergio P wrote: Still, interesting history, great setting and personal experience doesn't mean that every route is worth climbing. If I watched a lame movie like Karate Kid III (yea this film does exist) on top of Castleton it doesn't make the film worthy of an Oscar.Great points Sergio and I can agree with most of this, but what if it was Karate Kid I instead of III, I thought that movie was pretty proud. "Sweep the leg! You have a problem with that?" |
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I guess what is over looked is the stars relative to the area you are climbing in. |
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JPVallone wrote:I guess what is over looked is the stars relative to the area you are climbing in.Very good point. I always think that a 1 star route in the Creek would be 3 stars almost anywhere else. I think the same is true of ratings. As for the original Karate Kid movie; that film is good anywhere you watch it. Anyone who has a problem with that I will "put'em in a body bag". |
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I thought the route "Sedona scenic Cruise" aka " |
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It seems to me that no matter what route is mentioned, there is always someone who claims it is not as good as expected, or that they didn't like it as much as the hype, or that the route was too crowded. Then there are people who get off route and complain that the route sucked, or the people who followed the bolts perfectly and complain that there was no sense of adventure. |
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Any route that I can climb without falling is a three star route to me. |