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worst 3 star rtes in the US

Original Post
nineplusplus Utah · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 41

someone asked me this and I came up with a few.

Kor-Ingalls - Castleton
DNB - Yosemite
Whitney Gilman- Cannon

I think they only get them because of the historic view. If they were done today no way would they get anywhere close to three stars.

Shawn Mitchell · · Broomfield · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 250

I agree with John that Kor Ingalls is pretty cool. Royal Arches didn't impress me all that much. But maybe that's because my partner was a beginner, we were racing the afternoon sun, and ended up sleeping--well, huddling and shivering--on top and went down North Dome (?) Gully next morning.

GMBurns · · The Fucking Moon, man, the… · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 470

Disagree with WG, as I think it is a very nice climb. The pipe pitch is a little overrated, and so is the exposure, but it is fairly sustained from bottom to top with fun lines, good gear, good belays, and good views of the notch / ridge. Add in the fact that the face is east-facing, and you get some good opportunities for epics.

Coz Teplitz · · Watertown, MA · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 215

I agree that Royal Arches is overrated, although I had fun on the pendulum. I thought East Buttress of Middle Cathedral Rock was also too hyped up. The Nose on Looking Glass in NC also makes my list. Prince of Darkness at Red Rocks (and anything like it) is there too.

Sergio P · · Idaho Springs, CO · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 185

Do you mean 3 star climbs on a 3 star scale? Keep in mind this site uses a 4 star scale (I've never understood why).

I can agree with Royal Arches being over rated.

I would put Yellow Spur on my list, but I know that I'm in the minority on that choice. The top two pitches are great, but getting to them entails 3-4 pitches of 2 star climbing. That averages to under 3 stars in my mind.

I would also add every route in Clear Creek canyon where you have to listen to motorcyles and busses go by every few minuets.

I would also add every route at N. Table Pile since over half those routes would be considered high ball bouldering problems in many parts of the world.

Ken Cangi · · Eldorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 620
Sergio P wrote:I would put Yellow Spur on my list, but I know that I'm in the minority on that choice. The top two pitches are great, but getting to them entails 3-4 pitches of 2 star climbing. That averages to under 3 stars in my mind.
Agreed. I would go as far as to say that the easy 5.10, direct finish is the only worthwhile pitch on the entire route.
Braxton Norwood · · Billings Montana · Joined Mar 2003 · Points: 1,370

The Durrance Route @ Devil's Tower.

Dave Pilot · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2004 · Points: 45
Sergio P wrote:I would put Yellow Spur on my list, but I know that I'm in the minority on that choice. The top two pitches are great, but getting to them entails 3-4 pitches of 2 star climbing. That averages to under 3 stars in my mind.
Agreed, but I like the first pitch too (call me weird) and don't forget about the crowds.
JPVallone · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 195
ridgid stem wrote:someone asked me this and I came up with a few. Kor-Ingalls - Castleton DNB - Yosemite Whitney Gilman- Cannon I think they only get them because of the historic view. If they were done today no way would they get anywhere close to three stars.
I have not done whitney Gilman in Cannon, but I have done the DNB, and I have done the Kor-Ingalls. Both routes multiple times. I would have to disagree that these are not absolutely amazing 3 star routes in my book.

Seems so many people judge based on the quality of every single pitch, as I agree that can add up to the grand total of a 3 star route, I also think that the aesthetics of the line, the position of the route , the overall adventure of the summit and the journey to get there and especially back is what truly adds it up for me. Plus the first ascent history and style can contribute to my personal score. Not every Kor route is stacked and amazing the whole way, but the man had the eye for the obvious line. He was picking the plums and he took every pitch as part of the overall journey no matter what came his way as part of the line.

In the winter people are the same way about ski descents, they judge a run based on snow conditions, I have become a terrain skier and I am more after the line and the position than the snow quality. Good snow is just a bonus, but there is no bad snow only bad skiers. At the same time with Rock routes I believe the line is the draw along with the position and the journey to get there. I don't want to climb choss all day, but on big routes there is almost always going to be some not so great climbing that is usually rewarded by an incredible line, as well as maybe that one incredible pitch. Quality rock and incredible pitches the whole way is a bonus.

The DNB and the Kor Ingalls meet my personal prerequisites for 3 star climbing if you will. I don't really know why stars matter, I personally would just call anything that is worthy of the most stars a classic. If you really want to start a new thread for a different turn, you could say the Best 1 star routes in the US.

As for the Yellow spur, I would say that every pitch is not absolutely amazing, but the line is striking, sticks out like a sore thumb, has incredible position and exposure, complete adventure for a a full round trip and as convenient as it gets for a route of it's length and grade. A true classic in my book and I would give it the maximum number of stars based on which ever scale you choose.
Mike · · Phoenix · Joined May 2006 · Points: 2,615

In regards the the first few posts, I thought the Kor-Ingalls was a crappy route. When we climbed it I had already done the North Face of Castleton and absolutely loved it, so I was really excited about the Kor-Ingalls, expecting it to be even better. However it was a real letdown. The only reason that route deserves any stars at all is because it climbs a cool tower in such a beautiful location, b/c IMHO the route itself sucks.

Just my 2 cents.

JPVallone · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 195
Mike wrote: The only reason that route deserves any stars at all is because it climbs a cool tower in such a beautiful location, b/c IMHO the route itself sucks. Just my 2 cents.
Exactly my point and why I think it is a timeless classic.

I too have climbed other routes on castleton, I have climbed on 3 sides of the formation. As mentioned not the best climbing on the Kor Ingalls and not stacked the whole way. But a cool tower in a beautiful location, the eye of the first ascent team for the weakness, and the moderate grade that allows recreational climbers to gain this incredible summit. It all adds up to me. A fully aesthetic experience and adventure. Agreed there are not stacked pitches and splitters like other tower lines in the valley, but nonetheless, a true classic.

The star system is pretty lame and subjective, we all have our own opinions and criteria for what makes a classic in our own minds.

I kind of wish guide books didn't give stars to keep some adventure climbing alive and well for the masses. If there were no star ratings it might disperse crowds more and spread people out. Plus less traveled routes might get done more often and could help with cleaning them up and possibly improving there star rating due to some traffic.
Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 60

I have to agree about Royal Arches. Even with the Rotten Log in place, I thought it was just OK. I do believe that extra credit can and should be given to routes of historic significance, but this is a fun but just OK route.

Another contender although some might think I should be struck dead for naming this one: Reed's Direct. People rave about the second pitch, but I just find it painful. I'm a good crack climber, but the way the two sides of the crack pinch together to form pods always ground into the pressure points in my hands. It's a bomber hand crack for those who don't know how to handjam (if that makes sense).

Mike · · Phoenix · Joined May 2006 · Points: 2,615
JPVallone wrote: Exactly my point and why I think it is a timeless classic. I too have climbed other routes on castleton, I have climbed on 3 sides of the formation. As mentioned not the best climbing on the Kor Ingalls and not stacked the whole way...
You make a good point, however, if Kor-Ingalls is truly a 3-star route, then what does that make the other, better routes up the same tower? 4 stars out of 3?

If the North Face is 3 stars, then Kor-Ingals could surely be one star at most.

Again, just my opinion.
tom selleck · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2006 · Points: 270

I found the culp-bossier underwhelming

Sergio P · · Idaho Springs, CO · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 185
JPVallone wrote: The star system is pretty lame and subjective, we all have our own opinions and criteria for what makes a classic in our own minds. I kind of wish guide books didn't give stars to keep some adventure climbing alive and well for the masses. If there were no star ratings it might disperse crowds more and spread people out. Plus less traveled routes might get done more often and could help with cleaning them up and possibly improving there star rating due to some traffic.
I agree with some of your statements that how you rate a route should be based on more then just the quality of every pitch. I agree that history, exposure, setting and personal experience effect people's opinion. I'm sure if I climbed the Yellow Spur with 2 naked playmates who showered me with beer at the top of the route my opinion might be a little different.

Still, interesting history, great setting and personal experience doesn't mean that every route is worth climbing. If I watched a lame movie like Karate Kid III (yea this film does exist) on top of Castleton it doesn't make the film worthy of an Oscar.

I personally love the star rating system. I think most people take into account all aspects of the climb before they form an opinion. I respect the users of this site and when opinions are averaged out on each route I think it forms a solid consensus.

I also think that there are great routes that are only viewed as classic because of the variables beyond the quality of the climbing. For example, the Flatirons. I’ve climbed and enjoyed each of them. I hope to repeat them many more times before I die. However, on the entire route I never think “wow, that was a really cool move”.
JPVallone · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 195
Sergio P wrote: Still, interesting history, great setting and personal experience doesn't mean that every route is worth climbing. If I watched a lame movie like Karate Kid III (yea this film does exist) on top of Castleton it doesn't make the film worthy of an Oscar.
Great points Sergio and I can agree with most of this, but what if it was Karate Kid I instead of III, I thought that movie was pretty proud.

"Sweep the leg! You have a problem with that?"
JPVallone · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 195

I guess what is over looked is the stars relative to the area you are climbing in.

You could argue that it is impossible to have a 3 star route at North Table because of the factories, highways, overall setting and the rock etc. But I think too many may in fact compare a 3 star route at another location to a 3 star route in there current location which means that there is a higher defined standard of what a 3 star route is and can only be.

If you choose to use stars to rate the quality of your climb, then it would only be fair to use them at the same area relative to the climbs at the same crag. It seems absurd to compare a 3 star route in a Yosemite guide book to a 3 star route in a North Table Mtn guide book.

Sergio P · · Idaho Springs, CO · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 185
JPVallone wrote:I guess what is over looked is the stars relative to the area you are climbing in.
Very good point. I always think that a 1 star route in the Creek would be 3 stars almost anywhere else. I think the same is true of ratings.

As for the original Karate Kid movie; that film is good anywhere you watch it. Anyone who has a problem with that I will "put'em in a body bag".
J. Thompson · · denver, co · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,425

I thought the route "Sedona scenic Cruise" aka "
4 Flying Apaches" in Sedona was maybe 1 star.

"Daniel Larusso is going to fight!"

George Bell · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 5,050

It seems to me that no matter what route is mentioned, there is always someone who claims it is not as good as expected, or that they didn't like it as much as the hype, or that the route was too crowded. Then there are people who get off route and complain that the route sucked, or the people who followed the bolts perfectly and complain that there was no sense of adventure.

The older I get, the more I enjoy every route based on its own terms and not what I may be expecting. I don't like climbing in a mob, so I tend to avoid such routes and climb them another day.

Mikeco · · Highlands Ranch CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 0

Any route that I can climb without falling is a three star route to me.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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