Help me design a new way to solo

All are welcome to chime in.
When I started long ago, I trailed 3 lines, belayed on a clove, backed up with a grigri, and climbed with every piece of gear I owned. Then I studied, read and reread the continuous loop method, with tagging. Then I tried it, I realized it was revolutionary. I think its the best way I've seen yet of doing things. Now lets step it up a notch.
I want it all.
I want to tag, I want to body haul, I want to continuous loop with a silent partner, and I want to do it with only two ropes. One rope is a 70 meter thin line that works real well with the silent partner and I'd rather not (infact I won't) jumar on the lead line. The other rope is a fat work horse thats 122 meters (400 feet) long.
I've got it 90 %figured out, yet I don't want to bias the think tank.
Kevin
Assume I've got near unlimited resources as far as gear goes (with in reason).
[I've posted a similar topic @ RC.com to expand the think tank.]

Hmmmm,

You want to body haul. Meaning, you want to do the double tagging, whereby you haul up a load about 60% of body weight as you rappel down to clean the pitch, right?

And you only want to use two ropes, not three?

Let's say you rig the double tag with a PROPER hauling device, of which there is only one, the Kong Roll-Block. [or is it Block-Roll?] You could somehow slow your descent, as you go down on one side of the double tag load, and it goes up. You get to the lower anchor, and provided you left a bit of slack in the double tag line, you could attach your pig to it. I suppose if you jammed your double tag piglet into the hauler, it would hold the weight of the pig on the other side. Then you could use your 2:1 to lift the weight of the primary pig?

In a Perfect World of Plumb Pitches, this would work. In the same perfect world, you could rappel the lead rope. But aid pitches always seem to overhang and traverse, because that is their nature. I don't see a way to do it with only two ropes. What am I missing? The other 5%?

Note: I have rejected double tagging, as it is scary and complicated. I'd rather just haul a bigger pig. But you can't disagree that hauling 50% of your body weight "for free" as you rappel is pretty damn sweet, if you are a big wall camper like me.

So give up the beta, eh?

Here's the system, by the way:

"Pass the Pitons" Pete Zabrok wrote:Hmmmm, You want to body haul. Meaning, you want to do the double tagging, whereby you haul up a load about 60% of body weight as you rappel down to clean the pitch, right? And you only want to use two ropes, not three? Let's say you rig the double tag with a PROPER hauling device, of which there is only one, the Kong Roll-Block. [or is it Block-Roll?]

Was this a plug from a sponsor or just a fact that its a supirior device? Why not use a Pro-traxi or a Mini-traxi?
Kevin

Kevin,

how thin is your thin lead line. I use 10.2 with my sp and it works like a charm. 70m lead line is the way to go for sure.

How do you manage the 400 foot rope...

I've done some counterbalance hauling and it works pretty well as long as your weights are right and the line is plumb. I used the old haul bag on the fifi (double strength) trip. I stopped doing it due to cluster that can happen sometimes...

Anyhow, how about a diagram of your system?

Cheers

John

"Why not use a Pro-traxi or a Mini-traxi?

Because the Pro-Trax is a piece of junk, which will fail under any kind of load. I've destroyed two of them - JUNK.

The Mini-Trax is ok, for light loads, but has a very small pulley and is not much good for hauling heavy loads.

If your pigs are so heavy that you want to double tag, you really ought to get a Kong. With its huge pulley and sweet bearings, it makes hauling a breeze. You can switch from 2:1 hauling to 1:1 hauling days sooner with a Kong compared to the above [crappy] devices.

John McNamee wrote:Kevin, how about a diagram of your system? Cheers John

I'm not there yet, but I'm getting close.
Thanks for the heads up on the pro trax, I've only used the mini and love it.
My system will incorporate a far end hauler, and possably a Silent partner used a remote device as a back up incase I fall and the pig lifts the fifi off the anchor.
My style of vertical camping is more like ultra light backpacking. I'm an oz wanker and my pigs total weight (Ledge, Food, water, sleeping gear, poop bag, clothes, ect..) weighs enough to body haul the whole shooting match. (Secret.. dehydrated foods, alcohol stove, and I do with out a lot of comforts.)
More to come. For the complete story got to RC.com bw forum
Kevin

Kevin, so just a question...if you like to go ultralight then why deal with all the crazy business? Remember KISS....

10mm lead rope soloing on SP or Grigri.

9mm static haul line with Pro trax for main anchor and minitrax on the pig. Use a full strength FiFi made for remote hauling, run your rope through the Pro and rap back down the lead line body hauling the piggie.

2 ropes, 1 lead solo device, two haulers ( you could get away with one but the second on the bag comes in handy when the pig gets stuck)

Don't try to re-invent the wheel, just practice driving with it.

Kevin Stricker wrote: rap back down the lead line body hauling the piggie.

Good thinking and thanks for your contribution. What about if the pitch overhangs, or has a big traverse? I've already used this set up here in Zion where most routes are plumb (Touchstone, Moonlight, Desert Shield, Space Shot, ect..) BUT the last couple routes I did in the BIG DITCH were not the case.

I've about given up on the idea... Guess its best to just do it the old way and lead with a beefier line so I can jug and clean it.

If you can figure out a way to lead, body haul, then clean with out jugging the lead line, I'm all ears.
Kevin

I live 1 hour from Zion and I'm looking for a partner. Guess I'll solo till I do.

Kevin,

A mini-trax is fine for light hauls, and is ideal to use on top of your pig in a Far End Hauling system.

But only a Big Wall Theorist would suggest bringing dehydrated food on a wall...

...unless perhaps it's an alpine wall with lots of snow available, but you wouldn't be bringing an alcohol stove, would you?

Kevin
I do a lot of soloing but I have yet to come up with a way to hang the pig for counterweight hauling so that I am not worried it will unhook and take off on its own. How do you do it? Pete? Also, I'm not understanding the usefulness of the "Continuous Loop"... though I trust you guys are right.
My system has simply been to leave the pig on two fifis with the haul line into me with a piece of 3 mm (so if it pops it doesnt shock load me with all its force... the string breaks. I then rap with the haul line through the pro traxion to pull it up.
Help me out here and show me the woe of my ways (besides the fact that I'm aid climbing alone).
Sam

"Pass the Pitons" Pete Zabrok wrote:But only a Big Wall Theorist would suggest bringing dehydrated food on a wall.

Don't tell me you've never made Top ramen on a wall? Oh I love stove top after a long day. Postaroni? Cup-o-sup? These are a few of my favorite things. Not everyone lugs canned food up a wall.
Breakfast is a begal's and nutella. Milk & cereal.
Lunch is a bag of trail mix, GU, and H2O. (A secret goal for me is to shed a few lbs when I get off a wall. Look Ma! I lost 5 lbs in one day, thanks to a butt kicking solo on Angels Landing!)

I've found food not to be the biggest weight drain, but gear! Holy Crap hardware and ropes are heavy! I'm still replacing many of my free biners with Camp Nano's or BD's Nutrino's. I only use Oval's where I need them.

"Sam Lighter,Jr." wrote: I do a lot of soloing but I have yet to come up with a way to hang the pig for counterweight hauling so that I am not worried it will unhook and take off on its own. How do you do it? Pete?

If I'm not mistaken Pete uses a Fifi and ties a chain of slippery overhand knots with the haul line. (think of how electricians coil their extension cords). Its a good way to do it, yet it can be mighty tough getting those knots to slip from above if the pig is weighted the knots.

I too have been worried about pig bouncing off its anchor and taking a screamer of a ride to the ground with it. That's why I've only body hauled off the deck.
I'm still cooking up an idea, yet nothing will happen in the near future. More testing and all that jazz.
Kevin