Wasatch Select Guidebook?

Does anyone else feel the need for such a guidebook?

Are there any locals out there with the knowledge and desire to work on such a project?

-andy

I believe the Ruckmans and Chokestone Press already felt there was a need and did the leg work. If I remember correctly their 'select' guide was part of Chokestone's "Classic Rock Climbs" series and came out in the late 90's just after the big beef. I remember being intrigued by their selections and omissions (everyone a critic). I think most smog lake climbers wouldn't have much of a need, but surely road trippers would appreciate (or do appreciate) such a guide. Best of luck if you go for it. Cheers.

talk to glen kaplan, he was super gung ho about it last year but i think he may have been discouraged by people not being excited about another guide book or something.

Thanks guys for the advice. Anyone know glens contact info. I sent him a message through mp, but I have no idea how that works.
-andy

i'm working on a guidebook for maple canyon and another for american fork. my editor is making a few changes to the maple canyon guide - we'll be going to press with that one in late summer. the a.f. guide is about 95% complete. working on the last few areas. i kept hearing about another guide book for these areas but since it hasnt happened i figured i should jump at the opportunity. question - is there a market for a wasatch select guide? my thought was to start breaking the areas into the individual canyons. what say you, my people?

mark davis

Mark,
I have been hearing about supposed new guides to maple and AF for years. I thought that Darren and crew from Mountainworks were the ones putting them together. From past encounters, it seems as if they feel they "own" the right to do these guides, which is another issue... are you working with that crew on your guides? Can't wait to see them!

I guess my viewpoint is from more of a roadtripper to the wasatch. I spent a few days in SLC last summer and needless to say did not quite end up at crags that I thought were worthy. Select guides are great for people who dont live in an area to find the goods they want, which are quality, without needing to buy many books. Utah has got to be the most often visited state for climbing, and, well, its pretty much impossible to find out what the good stuff is using Mountain Project.

I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of Stewart Green's climbing Utah book. But done proper. Anyone want to help?
-andy

maddog wrote:i'm working on a guidebook for maple canyon and another for american fork. my editor is making a few changes to the maple canyon guide - we'll be going to press with that one in late summer. the a.f. guide is about 95% complete.

Finally! Better update your 8a.nu scorecards before the new guides come out with real grades.

Interesting sidenote: Ran into a guy(rob?) from Boulder last september while in Maple who was taking pics of crags. Told me he was just finishing up his own Maple guide and it would be on the shelves by July 1st. Anyone seen it yet?

People who plan on writing a guidebook don't "own" the rights to the future publishing of said guidebooks anymore than someone "owning" the rights to a climb where they think one should go in the future.
You want to write a guidebook to the Wasatch and you don't live here? advanced kudos....that will be a challenge. Select guidebooks seem to fit in more on a statewide or national wide level or multirange (huge area) level. I think an alpine wasatch climbing guide would be nice, and it would allow the rock climbing Wasatch guide to be somewhat limited to cragging and shorter stuff that is not too far from the road. Lots of work (you have to be into RESEARCH, thats all I can say from a somewhat limited experience). And research like selling them, people won't come to you, you have to go to them...which can be kind of cool if you are a very social person.

andy wellman wrote:I spent a few days in SLC last summer and needless to say did not quite end up at crags that I thought were worthy.

That's because they suck compared to everything in colorado. Honest, there are no good crags here. you were at the very best ones in the entire state.

someone wrote: Honest, there are no good crags here. you were at the very best ones in the entire state.

I can't say that Zion's National Park and the Moab area actually have better climbing than the Wasatch area, because I've never climbed in northern Utah. But I sure have enjoyed the climbing in the Zion and Moab areas, and they are certainly in Utah. Are those areas really deprived of "good" climbing?

Hello Mark,

Just curious about where you are collecting your info for the Maple and AF guidebooks? I called a few of the developers from Maple and AF and nobody has been contacted. Is this just old guide + mtn project + the update topo Mountainworks did a while ago = new book? Not trying to be a jerk, just curious.

Thanks,

Nathan Smith

James,
Interesting comments about guidebook work. Your guide to ibex seems very well respected, although to be honest I've never picked it up. I will make a point to do so. Anyway, your insight is appreciated.

I work for a company called Wolverine Publishing, owned by Dave Pegg, who has produced about 14 guidebooks in the last 5 years, 3 of which I have been a part of. I'm looking for people to help compile climbing info from the standpoint of publisher and editor, rather than author. We envision compiling a Utah climbing guide for visitors, or locals, that is similar in scope to Stewart Green's Climbing Utah book published by Falcon, but which is more up to date and includes accurate, select info, from the climbing spots in utah that everyone really wants to visit, and for which the state is famous. I'm sure you can all guess what most of those areas are. We also want to do the book in our "style," which we feel is helpful and unique.

I have climbed at many great spots in utah, but not being a local, I could never write such a book myself. In fact I really doubt that there is one person who could write such a book, so I am trying to find authors who would be willing to help on the project, and who have intimate knowledge of certain climbing areas. We have many contacts in utah who can help us or point us in the right direction, but alas we currently know nobody with the knowledge and desire to help with the wasatch area. So, I am trying to meet new people, and this place is a great wealth of climbing knowledge.

Would you be interested in helping us James?

Earlier when I said certain people "owned" the rights to certain guidebooks, I must say I disagree wholeheartedly with that statement, but I believe it is very important to have the correct person write a guidebook to any given area. There could be many correct people. Anyway, some people feel differently.

Thanks for the discussion guys.
-andy

andy wellman wrote:I work for a company called Wolverine Publishing, owned by Dave Pegg, who has produced about 14 guidebooks in the last 5 years, 3 of which I have been a part of. I'm looking for people to help compile climbing info from the standpoint of publisher and editor, rather than author.

Geez, why don't you ask Mike Beck and/or Jeff Baldwin if they'd be psyched to help you out?

Ha ha.

My hope is that if any guide is done, its done by someone who's local and familiar with the area. Geez, and maybe has climbed a few routes here for awhile too.

Mark, how far along are you? I've got a number of new routes in Maple that aren't documented in any guidebook (although one is here on this site on the Armory Wall). DK has my info. If you need, I'd fill you in too.

Been a bunch of new routes lately. Some of the info has been out there, via photocopy stuff that's been pretty adequate. I can't see someone taking on a comprehensive Wasatch guidebook besides the Ruckman's, and, without totally ripping off their work it'd be a serious challenge to get anything worthy. Tough row to hoe.

Canyons kinda need to be busted out into north of LCC and LCC south. That'd still be a ton of info, given the developement up high around Alta, in BCC, the new harder stuff in LCC on the granite, Hellgate, etc. Its a lot of info and a lot to take on. You'd almost have to be unemployed and work it full time for quite awhile.

DK has pretty up to date stuff on Maple, and, AF too I'd imagine. And, I know folks have been sharing their stuff with him (me included). His memory and accuracy seems pretty amazing. If I even let him in on a whiff of a route, right away, he climbs it and knows the bolt count, length, rap situation, hardest move, etc. Not too many folks do that, but, rather just copy info from the last guide. Which, if its accurate, is ok, but, sometimes its not.

In another 20 or so years, when Bsmoot retires, he'll do another guide. Guess I'll just have to wait...

Cheers,

-Brian
ps: Mark: you're Alan's nephew?

Brian in SLC wrote: I can't see someone taking on a comprehensive Wasatch guidebook besides the Ruckman's, and, without totally ripping off their work it'd be a serious challenge to get anything worthy. ?

As far as Wasatch guides have been in the past, It's not really ripping off someones work. The Ruckmans took our work (me and Les) and added to it. Earlier, we took work from Wasatch Granite and Desperate Grace, adding to those books. We did try to check old data. In my guide and the Ruckman's guide, we did get the blessing of the previous authors. We did credit them too.

P.S. I like the idea of a supplement.

Seems like there is a need for a new Wasatch book (or books?)
So what makes the most sense (in terms of need and sales potential): A huge comprehensive monster for the whole range? Separate volumes for different canyons? A select for the whole area? A supplement to the Ruckman guide?
We'd be interested in working with the right local authors if we could find them and define the scope for a guide.

Dave, Wolverine Publishing

For locals like myself, I think the greatest interest lies in a comprehensive guide or a supplement, rather than a select guide of all the classics we already know about. If a new comprehensive guide comes out, however, I definitely don't think it should be done in one volume (like others have said). Not only would it take forever before being published, but then we would all be lugging around a 10 pound book in our packs. Breaking it down by canyon sounds like a much better idea to me. Plus, this would give a few different authors the chance to work on a guide, instead of assigning the monstrous task of another "Wasatch Range" guide to one author.

Andy and Dave,
I don't like Select guidebooks for regional areas that much myself. I think motivation for writing a guidebook for me was the love and passion I felt for the area....up till now, all the Wasatch guides were written by locals with similar reasons, I suspect....whereas you would be obviously writing it for other ones...I don't mean to make it sound so bad, but that is the way I see it. I am not an "area" developer here anyway, just put up a few routes here and there and try to hit all the areas, but that in itself causes controversy, so I don't think I would be the best person to help you out...better to take Brian's suggestion and ask the outright area developers. Also, I can't stress the research aspect enough....as I just heard it here that a Maple Canyon guide will be published soon....I know they haven't talked to all the people putting up routes there...sad in a way. But good luck, and I will answer any questions you pose and I will definitely buy one when it comes out!

I know there seems to be a preference for the specific comprehensive guide in this thread, but I also know or know of many of the posters. 5 of them and/or love the FA, have written guidebooks, or just love guidebooks - the more comprehensive the better. Plus, they are all locals.

What about some market research from the publisher - what sells more? Comprehensive guidebooks on non-destination places (big cottonwood) or selects for a large area? Its a loaded question obviously as so much depends on different variables for the area. Take Teton classics (rossiter) vs the Ortenburger/Jackson comprehensive. Redrocks select, Yoesemite free climbs, boulder south, etc.

I definitely think there is value in splitting up areas with a lot of density; splitting the workload, adding to the information about the routes, lowering the cost of the guide. For an area like the Wasatch, I think most road trippers would LOVE a select guidebook as they will not spend the time there a local would. There are loads of climbs in the Wasatch and the existing guide is big, pricey, and takes some sifting through.

Matt

Building on what James and Brian have said above- I'd hope who ever antes up and authors a new guide(s) will cast a broader research net than just places like MP.com and the few notorious area developers. I know there are at least a few folk out there that are occasionally putting random new stuff up and not (electronically) sharing it or directly spewing about it. If the word was out (traditional bulletin board posts, local shops, serious social interaction), I think people might come out of the woodwork to share and provide some more diverse views/routes. It sounds like perhaps this was neglected in Maple...

A few more questions?
Which canyon would be the obvious starting point for a dedicated volume -- I'm thinking primarily in terms of potential sales. If that volume was a success, we could expand to other areas.
Also, any suggestions for the knowlegable locals new route developers who we could contact.

Thanks
Dave

I know that one Local guidebook author is well along in putting together a supplement to the Ruckmans guide.I would be glad to help with research ,but I have Zero interest in either a select or comprehensive Utah guide. Tourist should go to Colorado anyway because it is way better than anything we have in Utah (especially the Wasatch, crap rock and worse people!)
luked