Open Letter to the Douchebags who Trundled a Giant Rock onto my Head (Guideline 1 is out the window)

I hear ya, Mark. The embarrassing part is that unlike the slabs Bob D climbs on, mine are tilted 25 degrees *away* from me, not 25 degrees toward me. But it don't matter if the dude can climb 5.14. A sport climber who calls trad climbers metrosexuals is using bluff and bluster to cover certain latent anxieties :)

Shawn Mitchell wrote:Any sport climber who calls trad climbers metrosexuals is using bluff and bluster to cover certain latent anxieties :)

referred to sometimes as the 'Fear of Gear'

Bob this has been one of the most rewarding and informatively educational threads so far this year..!

this thread is awesome! I love a good linguistic debate.

Just remember to never let the chutney ferret get too close.....

pat vernon wrote:this thread is awesome! I love a good linguistic debate. Just remember to never let the chutney ferret get too close.....

Pat, that's awful. You go to Europe to learn that phrase? Man, revenge of the French. More American heads will explode. But I am proud of my cunning linguistics.

William Dacier wrote: Never said any of that. Putting words in my mouth. Don't appreciate the hint at being racist either. So, Tony, just fuck off asshole.

If you didn't say any of that, then what are we arguing about? I said that thoughts lead to actions or words.

If you insist that words necessarily lead to deads, and so me must stop words against minorities/protected groups, etc... then you are saying that.

I'm not presently masturbating, In fact, I've taken a brief pause- but only so as to prove that words DO NOT lead to deads. You see, I have some free will.

I will not deny that language of one can be used to influence behavior of others, but it can not causally predict or determine it.

I should have known not to enter into this conversation. Nobody in the world of science will enter into a debate with crack-pot behavioralists, and I should have known better.

Not So Famous Old Dude wrote: A baby is born. If nobody talks to him, he will be a complete vegetable. Words program him.

Huh? What are you on:
A) Crack
B) Heroin
C) LSD
D) Alcohol
E) All of the above

Yeah, Hellen Keller - total veggie, right?

Umm Tony, I'm out of my depth here and lean your way in this debate, but, yeah, as I understand the story, she was pretty much a biting, kicking digestive system until a "miracle worker" programmed her with words. I don't think she had to have been in a literal vegetative state to partially substantiate NSFOD's point.

Shawn Mitchell wrote:Umm Tony, I'm out of my depth here and lean your way in this debate, but, yeah, as I understand the story, she was pretty much a biting, kicking digestive system until a "miracle worker" programmed her with words. I don't think she had to have been in a literal vegetative state to partially substantiate NSFOD's point.

She clearly had thoughts and emotions, as well as behavioral tendancies prior to the introduction of any language into her life. And even lacking language, she still communicated through other means.
From the time that she was given words, she almost immediately used them to express rather complex emotions and ideas. Her thoughts obviously determined her behavior, not her words, which she was for lack of.

And if others' words make the person, then it would lead to the question of why, if deprived of them during her her formative years, she developed into such an intelligent and otherwise normal human being?

There is plenty of good science that will show that there is cognative or precognative precursor to any speach, and even that certain emotions are 'secondary emotions.' And they happen quite fast- but are still not great predictors of behavior. That's why behavioralism died decades ago, or perhaps nearly more like a century ago.

For a great (very long) read on the theory and science of the influence of language and the capacity for abstract representation (metaphor) on human development and evolution, the book 'The Origion of Consciousness in the Breakdown of The Bichemaral Mind' by Julian Jaynes. While it does not PROVE anything, it certainly has it's points to ponder.

OK PR and Tony, your words make sense to me.

Daniel Crescenzo wrote: Good sir, I do believe that we learn the value and literal sense of what a quote is at an early age. Perhaps we need some review. The " mark should only bookend what the person whom you are quoting actually said. My quote to be precice was "flurry of faggotism" (I still love the way those words work together). Now to better explain what that means to me (given your lust for twisting my words into your own special little pretzel of waaaaaah) let me help you to better understand: My use (and probable coining) of the term "faggotism" was more of an expression of the actions of the offending party and not so much the sexual alignment of the party in question (I have no bearing on whether they enjoy their bread butter-side up or down...metaphorically speaking of course). Perhaps fuckery in this case would have been a better way to describe the behavior of these folks seeing that the stigmata you wish to apply to my words can best be compared to some of the trials held in the house of seven gables. Furthermore, I find the word fuckery to be a great descriptor of what is going on here in this thread, so not only would this have been a better synonym of my expression to choose, but it would be a better word for you all to pontificate. Cheers

Well, from this post, as well as your first, its clear you spend more time on the computer using a keyboard as an engine to run your big mouth for the purpose of personal satisfaction, than you do climbing. Which, would make you the one displaying yourself in a "flurry of faggotism". :) More like a "blizzard of ultraquasiOedipuscomplexfaggotism". Touche' there Good Sir. :)

So, since I, unlike you, actually climb more than I debate and insult people as well as start pointless posts that are ran off emotion and the need for a "waaaaambulance" alone, I will close with this, as my belayer awaits....

If it was as big as deal to you as you've made it to be in this post- you shoulda been man and patient enough to wait for them to return to their car, so that you could of used you expansive dictionary of words on them, surely making them grovel, thus forcing them to buy you a case of beer AND a new helmet.(That though, would have required balls and not just a big mouth, so, I understand why you vented on the internert instead. Its called "manginaism" Plus, they would have just kicked your ass).

Also, if you are truly as wordly and wordly as you seem to think you are- you would have posted in a manner that would have actually sent a message warranting a response- not just created the most hillarious and drama filled post this side of the Mississippi. So really, your "fuckery" of a post was really just a bunch of "bitchasswhiningBScuzImtooscared2actuallyconfrontthemMandrama". (Please check ur dictionary cuz Im not sure thats a real word...???)

So, now that I have fully vented as well, and LAUGHED my ass off doing it, lololololololol, I do want to thank for starting all this- good job on creating this "fuckery of a stigmata"!!!! lololol

Yes, and as Bob D' said- you are all... well, WE are all meterosexual for partaking in(Daniels) "faggotism". Im off to climb, hello Red rocks...

Climb Hard. Climb Safe. L8R LMAO :)

well that's kind of a shoot'n'run Shane, something you have accused Daniel of... (just an observation)

Climb safe & don't forget that helmet..!

There is 45 minutes of my life I can't get back. Funny 1st post (glad your alive) then typical Mnt.Proj. thread drift....yawn....

Mike said it best " Mountain Project is officially the new RC. com".

kirra wrote:well that's kind of a shoot'n'run Shane, something you have accused Daniel of... (just an observation) Climb safe & don't forget that helmet..!

Your right, kinda. But mine is in forced self-defense and fun, fun, fun- tell me you didnt laugh!?!!?! lol

Oh, and I DO have my helmet. Im wearing it in the car just to be safe..... ;)

This thread needed a small dose of laugh- to offset the seriousness- Seriously..... :)

Shane Neal wrote: Oh, and I DO have my helmet. Im wearing it in the car just to be safe..... ;)

now that's a cool/funny visual... the way some nut-jobs drive in rush-hr sometimes I feel safer when I'm climbing ;)

LCCgradechaser wrote:typical Mnt.Proj. thread drift....yawn....

Whydja keep reading Gradechaser?

Bob D'Antonio wrote:Shawn...you calling me a sport climber...I'll kick your Fa.....ass. :)

You'll have to catch me first!

Shawn Mitchell wrote: Whydja keep reading Gradechaser? Bob D, you'll have to catch me to kick my ass. By the way, I know you put on gear once in a while for public show, but be true to yourself. There's nothing to be ashamed of!

Because I was hoping the OP would post some more funny shit, but you guys got/are too PC to even considering farting around on a windy day. Lighten up!

Shane Neal wrote: Oh, and I DO have my helmet. Im wearing it in the car just to be safe..... ;)

Oh yeah? Check this out:

Tony Bubb wrote: Huh? What are you on: A) Crack B) Heroin C) LSD D) Alcohol E) All of the above Yeah, Hellen Keller - total veggie, right?

Tony, come on man. Aren't you being a tad literal here? Hellen Keller was little more than an animal until someone finally began communicating with her, right? For her, it wasn't the spoken word, but she was taught to read and undertand. In other words, she only became a thoughtful, articulate person after someone finally learned to program her mind with words.

Why are you being so obtuse. It is possible for you to be wrong, and in this case you are, so why not just admit it and move on. The fact that you are in a flame war with William just proves my point. The words you two are using have become increasingly inflammatory, which led to what? ACTIONS. The actions are the flaming posts you are exchanging. Now you are doing the same thing with me. Why? Because my words inflamed you and triggered an action - sending me a disparaging post like this.

This entire thread is proof that I am right.

Not So Famous Old Dude wrote: Tony, come on man. Aren't you being a tad literal here? Hellen Keller was little more than an animal until someone finally began communicating with her, right? For her, it wasn't the spoken word, but she was taught to read and undertand. In other words, she only became a thoughtful, articulate person after someone finally learned to program her mind with words. Why are you being so obtuse. It is possible for you to be wrong, and in this case you are, so why not just admit it and move on. The fact that you are in a flame war with William just proves my point. The words you two are using have become increasingly inflammatory, which led to what? ACTIONS. The actions are the flaming posts you are exchanging. Now you are doing the same thing with me. Why? Because my words inflamed you and triggered an action - sending me a disparaging post like this. This entire thread is proof that I am right.

I agree NSFOD is correct. I hereby end my flame war and call a truce. It is important to remember that people come from different perspectives and bring differing views based upon their past. People aren't monolithic. Therefore, it is important to try and understand this going forward. If being in law taught me anything, it is that most everything is a shade of grey and not black and white.

Not So Famous Old Dude wrote: Tony, come on man. Aren't you being a tad literal here? Hellen Keller was little more than an animal until someone finally began communicating with her, right? For her, it wasn't the spoken word, but she was taught to read and undertand. In other words, she only became a thoughtful, articulate person after someone finally learned to program her mind with words.

NSFOD,

Let me preface this by agreeing that Tony clearly has difficulty admitting when he's wrong. That having been said, He is not wrong about this. In fact, your premise that humans are mere vegetables until they are programmed is absurd on the face of it. The irony of calling Tony obtuse, and then making that statement in the same breath, is remarkable.

I recommend that you read Daniel Goldman's book (Emotional Intelligence, Why it can matter more than IQ). You might also be able to find papers written by Salovey and Mayer, on the subject of emotional intelligence.

One more thing, I am not suggesting that you are dull. You seem like a reasonably intelligent guy. It's just that your notion that humans are intellectual vegetables until they are programmed by other humans shows a lack of insight.