climbers suck

Tony Bubb's comments made me laugh... if you haven't read them you should.

A few of my favorite degrading quotes (that have been said to me) in Boulder.

[while being cut in line at the Boulder Cock Rub] --"well are you tied in? Then I guess you're not ready!" (apparently it is OK for a stronger climber to jump between two partners at the gym, never mind asking "are you planning on climbing this too?)--R.U. tied-in --> dude's new nickname.

[before firing up the tsunami wall, also at the BCR] "Oh... you're... going to climb... THAT??? (apparently she didn't believe I had a snowball's chance in hell, one sit on a gym .11 first try. She then proceeded to sit on every bolt up a 5.12 on the same wall)

[while cutting in line at the BCR] "Oh... I'm just going to run up this real quick." response, "yeah well, we're already climbing here,"
response [while starting to climb] "I'll be done in a minute"
(this kid must have been 13 and climbing 5.13, but I wanted to squish his little skinny ass like a bug)

[At neptunes' buying rock shoes] (granted, I'm a big guy and don't fit the usual Boulder climber's build, but I've been climbing for ~15 years) "I don't know, maybe you should try these [hands me a pair of 5.10 spires, possibly the worst gym rental shoe ever]" he just pegged me as 'noob' and handed me a noob shoe... When I asked to try on a slipper he informed me about how "such an advanced shoe would require greater foot strength, maybe not what I was looking for." What a tool... never make assumptions in Boulder...

And the usual... [making small talk with other nearby climbers] (which many climbers do...) and being outright ignored!!! (as in, the invisible noob... 'just act like you didn't hear or see anything,don't make eye contact, maybe they'll go away and stop talking about their stupid easy 11a project.')

To really make the elites crazy, just start talking to them after a climb... pretend you don't know that you are getting the brush off, and start discussing beta on their route(even though you can't do it), they tend to get really nervous, because someone from a lower caste is talking to them.

And finally, to keep it fair...
There are a few climbers who are just absolutely bionic, that still cheer on me and the other gumbies on our v2 boulder problems, just because they're psyched to see someone try hard.

P.S. it doesn't matter how hard you climb, the flatirons 5.2's are still classic (and really run out), and are spectacular solos.

mobley wrote:http://www.toprope.com/assholes/assholes.htm someone needs to take this website over to get it going again. It is true, the east has the biggest asshole climber who isnt serving time. His name is Ken and he knows what is right.

Paul Johnson started that site and the zine. It was a fun time.

Tevis Blom wrote:(this kid must have been 13 and climbing 5.13, but I wanted to squish his little skinny ass like a bug)

Tevis,

There's an easy fix for that problem. Do what I once did to one of the local rugrats who was either too young or affected at the time to grasp basic etiquette.

I offered to belay him on his gym project, and when I lowered him off, I let him down about two-thirds of the way, tied him off, and left him there for about ten minutes until his sugar rush burned off. Everyone got a big laugh, and he chilled out after that.

You can't blame kids for being affected by talent and attention. This kid is an adult now, and he turned out to be a great guy, and one hell of a climber.

We all act like this at times. Just about everyone in these forums has acted like a judgmental dick on more than one occasion. Don't be so hard on each other. Just have fun with it, because it is a human trait that affects us all, and isn't going away any time soon.

Tevis Blom wrote:P.S. it doesn't matter how hard you climb, the flatirons 5.2's are still classic (and really run out), and are spectacular solos.

Best climbing around...

I think climbers go both ways.

This weekend me and a buddy were climbing Try Again at the Gunks. After falling on it twice I fully understood the name. A party to our right gave us some great beta and we finally managed to get up it. After I got back to terra-firma I had an organizational brain lapse left four runners laying in the dirt. These guys saw my runners and picked them up off the trail and had them waiting for me when I came back a couple of hours later after discovering that I was short on runners. They could have just as easily picked them up and packed off to a different part of the crag. I left them, they were legit booty.

As a dedicated East-Coaster, I always thought we were the uptight ones. But, when climbing out in J-Tree every local climber I met had a chip on their shoulder rougher than the local granite. The out-of-towners were all 100% terrific folks. For example: When I asked a self-identified local what he and his partner were climbing on, he glibly informed me that his parner was climbing on a rock. After talking to him for a few minutes and getting a semi-inaccurate geology lesson, I still had not learned the name of the climb. To someone used to the simplicity of the Gunks, finding a route in J-Tree is difficult. Knowing where you are is often a pre-requisite for getting to your destination. When we found some folks from Washington State, they told us where we were, and we were able to find the climb we wanted pretty easily.

Yep. Egos swing both ways.

Yeah.

Just love one another, please!!
There should be a forum where crybabies can whine!
Grow up people, its not just climbers that can be unnerving at times, anyone can be that way at times. Besides, we all have worse things to worry about like (9-11) Things are going to get worse, before it gets better. So LOVE not HATE!!
When things are not going your way and your having a bad day, just look at my goofy picture and thats bound to make you laugh!!

mobley wrote:http://www.toprope.com/assholes/assholes.htm someone needs to take this website over to get it going again. It is true, the east has the biggest asshole climber who isnt serving time. His name is Ken and he knows what is right.

With all due respect your geography is at fault. That's the North, not the East. We don't have much to put a crowbar to down in these parts.

I should kick your ass for sayin that! j/k had to say it..but of coarse its the most "competitive non-competitve sport" out there, .and also harding set the standard

28% of humans are dicks. (Almost) 100% of climbers are humans. Now here's where the math gets tricky...

The craft in question is irrelevant. It's just human nature.

Back when I was a little punk in the late 70s, I thought everyone who climbed was cool. I loved climbing so much it was awesome to kick back and meet someone else you could talk climbing with.

Nowadays, you have a lot more people fighting for little more than the same number of routes we had back then (depending on the area). Plus, everyone started climbing and advancing thru the grades the same way: you'd strap on a pair of EBS, and learn to lead by leading and placing your own gear. Bolting was reluctantly permitting on some routes. Top roping was considered cheating (unless you were on a top rope climb that didn't warrant bolting as a means of preserving rock...remember that concept?).

Nowadays, you have people bred purely from gyms, many of whom believe or have the attitude that they're entitled to have an outdoor crag reflect their experience at the gym. While they might not mind the crowding, the grid bolting, working routes, leaving draws, those actions are pretty contrary to what a lot of older (I'm 44) like me believe climbing to be. In fact, for my first 20 years as a climber, that's how climbing was.

I'm definitely not saying that it's all the new climbers faults, it's just that one of the causes of the suckiness is that you now have two different tribes fighting for the same piece of real estate, and neither tribe seems particularly willing to accept the other values.

I've gotta disagree with the idea 'climber's suck,' at least to a point. I've just started visiting a local climbing gym after 20 years or more off the rocks, with my daughter, who's just 9. Everyone's been just about as cool as can be.

Now, I do imagine it's a bit different out on the rocks these days, given that there seem to be so many more climbers. But is it really any different than the golf course (where folks have been known to hit into slower groups) or the surfing wars, or anything else impacted by crowding.

Way back when, if you hiked to anything but the closest rocks to the road in J-Tree, it was rare to see another person, much less a climbing group trying for the same line. But I do remember a time or two when a famous climber and his posse would pull up and zip around us ordinary folk; not terrible people, just people with a different agenda, but it could be annoying. They weren't going to slow down to let you tie in, partly because they often didn't ropes.

Still, if the company annoys you, I was at zion a few weeks ago and saw an endless number of routes and walls without a soul on them.

If someone already mentioned this, I missed it: Don't we all project a little bit? If you are looking for attitude in someone it is easy to find. If you want to believe someone is an ass then the slightest gesture they make or ambiguous comment they spray can be bent to your own agenda. I get along with everyone I meet over the phone but when I meet someone in person, I am much more reserved, much more cynical. I'm glad I have figured this out about myself. I am trying to improve on it... I'm sure other climbers have thought I have been an ass when it was the farthest thing from my conscious mind. I can't even climb .11s so I definately don't have any better-than-thou 'tude. Not on purpose anyway.

Tom Woods wrote:Speaking as an officially old person (51), I can report that the attitude of many climbers today is worlds apart from days of yore. I grew up climbing. Back in the 60s almost nobody climbed (or skied for that matter). The circle of climbers and skiers was much, much smaller than today, where it seems almost everyone climbs or skis. Back in the day, climbers (and skiers) were much more respectful and polite to one another, and there was very little of the "elitism" that seems to be rampant these days (especially in a place like Boulder). I see the same sort of "elitism" manifesting itself on the local mountain bike trails, where so many many mountain bikers are legends in their own minds (just like so many skiers and climbers), and ride as if the trail is theirs alone. It's all about them. If you buy the right gear, you're a rockin' dude (even if you can't really ski, bike or climb). In my opinion, TV and video games may play a role in this sort of behaviour (or maybe I'm just getting old). From TV we learn to be smarmy and disrespectful to others, and from video games we learn that other people are mere props on our stage. Rocks on public land belong to no one, and are for all to share. The gifted climber is hardly entitled to be rude or disrespectful to others because of his or her ability. For me climbing and the mountains are about being outside, enjoying nature and my companions, and having a good time. My personal theory is that "elitism" began with my generation (the self-absorbed baby boomer generation) and has since expanded and prospered among subsequent X and Y generations. People of my parents' generation would never have behaved like people do on the rocks or in the mountains today. They were cut of different -- and better -- cloth. Community values and mores change and evolve quickly.

Tom,

No malice intended, but I think you are experiencing the classic, generational delusion. I completely disagree with all of the above, except for the part about the last string of boomers spawning the me-generation.

Climbing has been an integral part of my life since 1979, and my experience around the country with climbers, during that period, was that they were more elitist and anti-social, on average, than the latest generation. This is not to say that there weren't lots of cool people in the sport - just that climbing at the time attracted more than its fair share of socially reclusive types.

I also have to chuckle at your premise that your parent's generation was cut from a better mold. We are still reeling from the fallout from bigotry, racism, and otherwise provincial attitudes of people from those earlier times. And while this latest generation battles to tear down those walls, the last of the dinosaurs manipulate their positions in government in a death knell attempt to preserve those attitudes.

As a life-long adventure sports athlete and photographer, I have spent a lot of time around people at every level of this sport, and my firsthand impression is that the newer climbers are much friendlier and open-minded than those from when I started climbing. If they seem more publicity affected, it is because they have grown up in a media-saturated environment. They are living in and adapting to their times, as should we if we want to function in harmony with our offspring. I am inspired by this generation's open-mindedness, social diversity, and desire to think outside the box.

Ken Cangi wrote:We are still reeling from the fallout from bigotry, racism, and otherwise provincial attitudes of people from those earlier times. And while this latest generation battles to tear down those walls, the last of the dinosaurs manipulate their positions in government in a death knell attempt to preserve those attitudes.

wow ken -great prose

Tom Woods wrote: And the reality -- change over the years aside -- is that the overwhelming majority of people you meet climbing are really nice people -- today or in days gone by. Perhaps experiences with jerks just tend to stick in the brain better.

I agree, although I try, diligently, to focus more on the positive experiences, while using the negative ones as references for what to avoid and how not to act. It's a life-long learning process.

Cheers,

Ken

You think climbers are mean to noobs?!?

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Enter the sadistic, hateful and vile world of chess!

Three major points to make here:
1) There are so many more climbers, and so many more kinds of climbers, out there today than in 60s, that it is useless to make a general statement like "climbers suck." Some climbers suck and some do not. Such estimations of worth should be made on an individual basis.
2) However, since generalizations are useful, and humans generally do fall into larger personality / behavioral categories, I'll go as far as to recount here what Mike Call, a self-proclaimed climbing historian, once told me: the people at the "top" set the tone in any group. So, back in the angry 1990s, when the elite climbers were starving themselves, training till total failure, and taking dietary supplements just to eek another letter grade out of their malnourished, battered bodies, the tone of climbing was more harsh. Many who reached the then-exalted grade of 5.12 (and wore the right tights) saw themselves as superior specimens. But when a young, mellow Cali kid named Chris came along and sent all the hardest projects of the day (sometimes changing his clothes right in the middle of them), the old-school strongmos realized they'd been duped. All their training and attitude didn't mean much when a 15-year-old could warm up on their proj's. And with Chris' Buddha-may-care attitude being broadcast in the media, it finally became cool to climb for the fun of it again. And for the most part, the young guns today are laid back, as Mike's theory posits.
3) Finally, to address the original post's parenthetical "(especially in a place like Boulder)," I'll add: Boulder is not a normal town. Because of all the rock nearby and the existing base of serious climbers, Boulder attracts people who put more value on climbing than on anything else -- and with a lopsided view like that, no wonder things quickly turn into territorial contests or pissing matches. The trick here is to leave those folks to their own devices and maintain your own positive take on climbing. Only in this way can we help the climbing community be more like what we'd like it to be: a place where people don't suck.

Justin Roth wrote:Three major points to make here: 1) There are so many more climbers, and so many more kinds of climbers, out there today than in 60s, that it is useless to make a general statement like "climbers suck." Some climbers suck and some do not. Such estimations of worth should be made on an individual basis. 2) However, since generalizations are useful, and humans generally do fall into larger personality / behavioral categories, I'll go as far as to recount here what Mike Call, a self-proclaimed climbing historian, once told me: the people at the "top" set the tone in any group. So, back in the angry 1990s, when the elite climbers were starving themselves, training till total failure, and taking dietary supplements just to eek another letter grade out of their malnourished, battered bodies, the tone of climbing was more harsh. Many who reached the then-exalted grade of 5.12 (and wore the right tights) saw themselves as superior specimens. But when a young, mellow Cali kid named Chris came along and sent all the hardest projects of the day (sometimes changing his clothes right in the middle of them), the old-school strongmos realized they'd been duped. All their training and attitude didn't mean much when a 15-year-old could warm up on their proj's. And with Chris' Buddha-may-care attitude being broadcast in the media, it finally became cool to climb for the fun of it again. And for the most part, the young guns today are laid back, as Mike's theory posits. 3) Finally, to address the original post's parenthetical "(especially in a place like Boulder)," I'll add: Boulder is not a normal town. Because of all the rock nearby and the existing base of serious climbers, Boulder attracts people who put more value on climbing than on anything else -- and with a lopsided view like that, no wonder things quickly turn into territorial contests or pissing matches. The trick here is to leave those folks to their own devices and maintain your own positive take on climbing. Only in this way can we help the climbing community be more like what we'd like it to be: a place where people don't suck.

Very well said, Justin.

Come on people it's not climbers or anyone else.
It's the whole damn world. No matter what you do or where you live there's gonna be assholes. More now than there used to be and more are born everyday.

Face it. Times they are a changin' Ever hear of the "good ol' days"
Well guess what, your livin' in them now.

Just think how people will reminisce about the turn of the century fifty years from now.

-E

Bob D'Antonio wrote: Justin...your friend wasn't much of a historian...5.12 was established in the early to mid-70's and by 1990 5.14 to 5.14+ was in being touted as top end of the grading system. There has always been the young hot shots...Ron Kauk, Hugh Herr,Jimmy Surette and Scott Franklin come to mind...all nice folks and they have turned into pretty good adults.:) People suck in every sport and the internet really doesn't help the situation...at least back in the old days you based your opinions on personal meetings and real human beings that had real names...ah...the good old days.

Would you not say that 5.12 was kind of a cutoff for "elite" climbers in the late 80s/early 90s? I know the top guys were sending much harder, but it seemed to be a bit of a line. "How to Climb 5.12" anyone? And to clarify, Mike's comment was that the prevailing attitude starts at the top and trickles down. The elaboration was mine, so I'm the one who's not much of a historian. And yes, there've always been young guns with 'tudes... but that early 90s period of grade chasing, bolting, and euro comping was, I feel, more rife with them, and the culture on the whole more slanted in that direction. Always could be wrong, though.