climbers suck

j fassett wrote:You want to see some serious attitude? try golf! JF

I've heard bingo can be equally brutal. Dentures flying and all... :/

Shawn Mitchell wrote: On John's main question, Andrew might have his finger on something with climbing's obvious, visible differences in skill levels. Do experienced skydivers or cavers just look different in the way they perform? If not, maybe there's something about climbing that feeds human ego a bit differently. But there are a bunch of friendly climbers too!

The skydive uniform is pretty much the same across the skill level spectrum-goofy backpack, and large suit with "handholds" tacked on to it. Add in neon across the spectrum of ugly banana suits and the gumbies and the skygods look pretty much the same.

If I run into a noob at the krags or on a multi-pitch I try and help them out and give them direction if I can. I always try to be nice unless I get newbietude... then they're on their own.

In terms of mentoring climbers, I'm really selective about who I climb with. If someone annoys the sh*t out of me, I don't want to spend time with them, let alone climb with them. If someone is genuinely interested in learning, then I'm open to help them. Mentoring, especially trad, takes a lot of time and patience... and then there is the safety and responsibility aspect.

Yes, it can be a hard sport to break into as a noob. I agree. I don't know if that will ever change. If you want it bad enough you'll keep looking until you find a few good folks to climb with. Next thing you know all your closest friends are climbers.

roadies(cyclists) are pretty rude.

I think you see more of the rude 'tude out at the crags when we are competing for routes.

This is an interesting observation from a fellow C-Springser. When i lived in tucson, where only a few crags were ever really very crowded, climbers were a lot friendlier and more interested in finding new partners. here on the front range it's been a real b#^tch to try and find new partners since i think people are worried about more overcrowding of the crags and not interested in helping more people get into the sport or in my case, continue the sport. of course, i guess i can understand the competition because i have noticed a looming dread in my gut whenever i finally do get the stars to align with partners and weather that i might be foiled by crowds since lack of practice = being stuck on the easier climbs everybody else wants to be on!
that said, find anybody willing to hike an hour or two and you'll still find that climbers are a pretty sweet bunch. there's a magic no-suck spell that gets cast on climbers a few miles from the crowded parking lots

Charles Dalgleish wrote:Most, if not all of my jumps have been RW work, and most skydiving is (be it CRW, VRW). not too many jumps just to fly. Which means it's a very social network/sport. I will certainly agree that with climbing, it tends to be the upper echelons that contribute to the 'tude, but to an extent you see it in all levels. It's just not there in skydiving it seems. Not even amongst those with 2000+ jumps. Heck, all the people I've met with 5K+ jumps have been great, handing out beta and helping in dirtdives if asked. That said, I know that there are a great many people that climb that ARE friendly, and helpful, and respectful. Just seems there is far too many for my personal liking (and others here) that don't represent some of our values. Nothing wrong with that, but it is disappointing on a personal level..

Gotta say I agree, skydiving gods tend to be much more affable in person and always willing to help when asked, with zero attitude. Climbers can be a little more catty, especially at the crags, like they all have a different nature experience that everyone else needs to cater to. Radio, no radio, dogs, no dogs, campfire parties that end at midnight, campfire parties that end at 9:00PM, pre hung draws. perma draws, leaving padsETC ETC Blah Blah. I still love climbing, once you're off the ground it's all good. Jumpers are just more helpful and nurturing in general. More climbers could stand to pick up another sport(ANY sport) just to mix it up and gain a different experience. I don't see it as much tho...

S. Gileadi wrote:I've met lots more nice climbers than rude climbers. Go figure.

I would also agree with this statement dude.

What would you skydiving folks say is the most commmon age, socio-economic status, and occupation for skydivers?

5.10b4me wrote:roadies(cyclists) are pretty rude.

you'd be rude too if you had to dress up like this every weekend:



as for climbers being rude i've actually found the opposite to be true. in my experience climbers have been far more friendly than any other breed of people i've met. i've run into my share of antisocial assholes at the crags but these douchebags are few and far between (at least in tucson).

as for arrogance, there does certainly seem to be a bit of this among climbers. this is probably because it's so easy to make a comparison of skill level in our sport. "so you climb 5.9? well i climb 5.11. what do you think of THAT?"

the logic behind arrogance in climbing quickly breaks down if you think about it. no one gives a shit about climbing aside from the relatively small number of people who actually climb, just like we don't give a shit about road bikers. so you're a really strong climber? good for you, no one cares.

I've met alot of nice climbers too, but whenever I'm at a crag or bouldering, it's almost the case of who's going to flinch first and be cool. Alot of climbers (especially people who get into it to stroke their egos) are kind of macho driven, and they act as if it's beneath them to be nice to someone who's not better than them.

I'd get alot of that bouldering. I look like an accoutant but I've been doing this for over 30 years and still can get up some V4-V5s on muscle memory alone. Once I float a couple of things, the dudes with shaved heads and tats are suddenly much more talkative and friendly. It's weird. I'm the same person but suddenly it's cool to talk to me. Whatever.

Still, I'd say it's far friendly than road biking, where some riders often feign blindness to avoid waiving or saying 'hey.'

Tea wrote:It's just climbing. Self serving at it's best, and doesn't mean you are jackshit good at doing anything else in life, like being a good friend or spouse, a hard worker, a kind human, or anything else that should really matter.

a *shocking* discovery I had also. Perhaps some sort of 'maturity' crossroads of climbing-life..? maybe-- naaahh

I also note climbers become *nicer* the farther you get from the trail, i.e. sporters vs. traddies and the colder the weather gets i.e. Ice vs. Rock (*disclaimer - this is a general observation & not meant to start sport vs trad war) Also notice, generally, the better quality folks overall, tend to NOT post frequently on those 'other' forums :)

Several times people have mentioned on this thread how rude road bikers are. I really have never had any encounters with them or road biked myself. I would have to say they are the most ridiculous looking group of recreational users I have ever seen. All dressed up in there "sponsor" looking attire. Big bulging packages hanging out. Silly looking helmets. And have you seen the places these people ride. Jam packed narrow highways with trucks and cars buzzing within several feet of them. The few road bikers I have known where all naturaly high strung and kinda anal individuals. I bet between the stress of the cars whizzing by and their outfits they have had to become very rude as a defense mechanism.

bbrock wrote:Several times people have mentioned on this thread how rude road bikers are. I really have never had any encounters with them or road biked myself. I would have to say they are the most ridiculous looking group of recreational users I have ever seen. All dressed up in there "sponsor" looking attire. Big bulging packages hanging out. Silly looking helmets. And have you seen the places these people ride. Jam packed narrow highways with trucks and cars buzzing within several feet of them. The few road bikers I have known where all naturaly high strung and kinda anal individuals. I bet between the stress of the cars whizzing by and their outfits they have had to become very rude as a defense mechanism.

This thread is making me laugh. Really hits close to home. I used to race road bicycles (many years ago in my former life.) Yes, roadies are a-holes as a group. Yes, having been hit by cars twice during my racing career I can say that cars buzzing are unsettling at times. (As a female, bbrock, I can't comment on the bulging packages except to say that I never noticed them ;-)

When you're really going balls-to-the-wall you're bumping elbows with the guy or gal next to you. You can basically expect to have some serious road rash, if not worse, at some point each season. I used to hear guys say that some of the attitude in road cycling toward newbs stems from not wanting to share space in the pack with some guy who can't hold his wheel and might take you down. Your life depends on the competency of the people with whom you're training and racing. ...Not so different with climbing, though.

Rudy- Thanks for commenting on the Tucson climbing community. As a climbing newb here I can definitely agree everyone has been welcoming. It's part of the reason I can now be found at the crag instead of on my road bike! -Tiffany

bbrock wrote:Several times people have mentioned on this thread how rude road bikers are. I really have never had any encounters with them or road biked myself. I would have to say they are the most ridiculous looking group of recreational users I have ever seen. All dressed up in there "sponsor" looking attire. Big bulging packages hanging out. Silly looking helmets. And have you seen the places these people ride. Jam packed narrow highways with trucks and cars buzzing within several feet of them. The few road bikers I have known where all naturaly high strung and kinda anal individuals. I bet between the stress of the cars whizzing by and their outfits they have had to become very rude as a defense mechanism.

All's I know is, road bikers really hate sharing the road with me when I'm cruising around town or on a trail on my longboard. You'd think (as I cycle a bit myself, although not in that ridiculous attire) that they would be more empathetic and willing to share due to the amount of crap that they get from people in cars, but nope, doesn't seem so.

I do notice that a lot more people smile and wave at me when I'm riding my longboard than a bike, I guess no one really digs the rudeness.

I used to think the distance from the trailhead rule was true but have recently had a few experiences to prove that there really is no rule. Ran into some hilarious folks out in Moab at Big Bend as I pretended to be good at bouldering. They were hucking themselves at the V1s and not doing very well but having a great time, offering to share thier beer and generally being just nice people. That evening they rolled by our camp, noticed us and invited us to go back and hit it again by lantern. Also, climbing at Shelf, while crowded and the perfect stereotype of all that is supposedly evil (pinky to lip here) about such craggin' Ive always had nothing but pleasant interactions with folks (and there are a lot there!). Anyway, just my $0.02.

tbrain wrote: As a climbing newb here I can definitely agree everyone has been welcoming. It's part of the reason I can now be found at the crag instead of on my road bike! -Tiffany

I helped turn a skydiving girl I have never met into a climber via long distance hook-up with my climbing pals back in her state. Now I hear she wants to start climbing trad. They must have been mean to her, too.

Well, if anyone thinks climbers are bad, try hanging out with bottle diggers, and snake hunters (the black market type). You'd be on the look-out for them back stabbing probes, and homemade snake sticks up your ass. Those were some of the craziest, most adventurous, most territorial, and toughest guys I've ever met, and because there was money at stake with their finds, it could get pretty damn ugly. Imagine what would happen if climbers got paid "good" for FAs.....

oh yeah, TEA - that's freaking hilarious. I hate tele. best thing I ever did was quit that crap.

and i remembered that part of the climbing experience for many people is to be working at the grade and type of climbing you want to do. Part of why its selfish.

If you think all road bikers are pricks, you should ride RAGBRAI thru Iowa.

And 90% of the climbers I've met have been great, even at overcrowded Front Range crags on weekends.

I finally realized that most climbers are social rejects and what I used to take as attitude is often an inability to communicate effectively. So now I greet everyone and start conversations and find that people who originally came off as being pricks are actually OK once you break the ice. Of course there are still jerks out there but those people usually are just super insecure with their mediocre climbing ability. In a place like Boulder or SLC the truth is that 90% of the climbers are mediocre compared to the local Pro's, and I think this leads to a lot of climbers being labeled as jerks.

Talk to the person and not the climber and you discover that most are good people. Expect people to be jerks and they invariably will be.