The mental game and falling.

Hello,

I had a hell of a time at a crux on a 5.7 trad route this weekend. I didn't have the commitment to make the hard and strenuous move at the crux and launch into the unknown. I went home feeling a little upset with myself because this is a reoccurring pattern for myself on routes that I am on siting.

I wrote a long section in my Journal that evening (let me know if you want me to post it) about why I was afraid to make the moves and why I ended up coming down and going home instead of completing the pitch.

I believe it is simply my psychology - fear of falling and trusting the gear. The fall was clean, the gear was good.

I also wondered about the first ascent and how the route was climbed back in the sixties - what problems did those guys have and how did they work the route.

I'm going to go back next week and have another go, but I need to spend some serious time figuring out my mental approach to climbing in general. I'm pretty sure that this is the answer to which side of the thin line (success and failure) I am on.

Has anyone any thoughts or experience that may help me?

Thanks, Graeme.

Start here

Oh, I could write 1,000 pages on this, but I won't, because it all boils down to this for me:

You are already on your way to solving your problem: you are going to go back and try again. Your resolve will be stronger next time, and then you'll do it. That will give you confidence. The more confidence you have, the less fear you will have. Boulder to get strong and develop technique. Then climb what you want. If you get scared and back off, don't sweat it. Just go back another time. Eventually, your desire to achieve the goal will override all the rest of the irrational stuff going on in your head and you'll do it. It takes a long time for climbers to develop a good lead head. But as a general rule, strength = confidence = less fear.

Set goals, keep climbing and trying, and you will eventually acheive them.

I get the same 'head game' - if i was following the route or top ropeing, it'd be no big deal, but climbing on lead, my confidence slips and i have a much tougher time committing to the route. I think the key (for me at least) is to keep on going back though - work on getting stronger and also - to develop a bit of confidence in making gear placements and feeling good about them. One strategy i'm pursuieing is to climb "easy" trad routes, just to work on making gear placements quickly - picking the right piece the first time and getting it plugged without working at it too long and getting tired. At least for me, that's one of my 'fears' - or one of my perceived weaknesses.

Graeme -- how long have you been leading? Is 5.7 pushing your limits? If so, maybe you need more mileage on the lower grades to build your confidence.

Have you ever fallen on gear? If so, was it a bad experience that's affecting your current ability to lead above gear? If you haven't fallen, is your fear based on concern that the gear won't hold a fall, or is it something else? Trad lead falls aren't something to be taken lightly, but once I knew from first-hand experience that my placements would hold a fall, it did a hell of a lot for my confidence.

As Avery pointed out, Arno Ilgner's mental training for climbers is outstanding, I wholeheartely recommend it. If you can't take one of his courses, at least pick up his book The Rock Warrior's Way.

Good luck!

JL

Hi saxfiend,

Its funny - 5.7 is in no way pushing my limits. In fact I'm very competent on some 5.8s around the area. Even some of the 5.5s and 5.4s have had me scuppered!

I've been climbing for a number of years and have seconded some very scary multi-pitch routes. I've grown up as an apprentice to a climber back in the UK and I've been leading for a number of years - but not really pushing the grade. I've taken several trips to remote places such as Sierras and Alaska (Little Swiss), good glacier travel skills, mountaineering skills, aid-skills, etc. That's the odd thing. I'm pretty rounded!

I took a nasty headfirst lob backwards last year when I got spat off a nasty mantle move and my partner, Aaron thinks that may have done me some psychological damage - I don't think that's the problem.

I've never fancied falling and haven't done much of it - I think that is the problem...

This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. While I've backed off a lot of things that have seemed sketchy for one reason or another, I typically don't have a problem whipping off good gear on a clean fall. I think I took four falls figuring out the crux moves on a route in Boulder Canyon early in the year. A couple of pieces ripped on the first fall and I just had to accept the fact that I would have to run it out from the last bomber gear. No biggie.

Then two weeks ago I fell just before the last bolt on Big Sky Mud Flaps at Wall Street, breaking an ankle. Maybe I should have bailed from the second to last bolt when I realized how insecure the final section looked.

What will I do next time? I don't know. I guess figuring out what you can reasonably go for is a fine art. But frequent flier miles are nothing to be ashamed of.

I took a nasty headfirst lob backwards last year when I got spat off a nasty mantle move and my partner, Aaron thinks that may have done me some psychological damage - I don't think that's the problem.

I've never fancied falling and haven't done much of it - I think that is the problem...

Stop and re-read the quote. Then pause, and re-read it again. You took a head first fall and don't think this is messing with your head? Head first falls are scary.

If your only fall was a bad one, this is only going to reinforce any disinclination you may have had about falling. Truth is, falling does not feel natural for most of us. Your brain has spent most of your life learning that falling = hitting the ground and getting hurt. Of course, good gear and a stretchy rope dramatically alter the end-results of a fall.

Experience climbing harder grades will certainly help. After-all, if your max TR is in the 5.8 - 5.9 range, then a 5.7 is actually fairly difficult for you. I would also recommend taking some time to fall in the gym, where the falls are short and safe.

Do you climb with a more experienced climber who can give you feedback on your gear placements? When I was learning, it helped me to hear from a crusty experienced trad-climber than Nut #1 was bomber but that cam was too shallow and flaring to hold a fall. My gear improved and my confidence grew. Once you KNOW the gear is good, it can be helpful to take some short, GENTLE falls on pieces that are well placed AND backed up.

Falling will make it easier to fall.

Hi Andy,

I had a good teacher in terms of placing and checking gear - I also took more than one course with good guides and spent time trying to learn the more technical aspects of climbing - if I'm honest I'm a gear head and a rope-work head!

I think technically I'm above average - because safety is paramount to me and the bigger routes I've climbed (whether leading or seconding) have always been remote.

I was actually thinking of hitting the gym (I don't often) for some falls on lead and then doing the same in an outdoor environment.

I think getting my head right for the routes I want to climb is just going to take a bit of time but I'm trying to find the RIGHT way to approach the problem that I know I have - I'm pretty pragmatic that way.

Thanks, Graeme.

One thing that can help is to move up to the crux, think of a possible solution and then pull halfway into it and look around for other holds. If you spot one that looks like it will work to get you over the crux (foot and/or hand), then position yourself on those holds but it you don't feel ready, simply downclimb back to the rest stance. Then, move back up again and do the same thing. As you do this, you'll be wiring the moves getting into the crux position and it will be easier and less strenuous (and less fearful) each time. Eventually, you will probably pull up far enough, and feel comfortable enough to then pull "beyond the point of no return." At that point, your fear of falling will then become an ally in your struggle because you will then know it is better to continue up to the next stance than it is to just fall off right there. This technique was actually discussed by Royal Robbins in one of his old books, I believe. Something about a scary move he had to do at Taquitz one time.

I used this all the time if I can't find a sequence that makes any sense to me. I'll downclimb 20-30 feet sometimes to get to a rest stance and then try it again, especially if I really want a flash on it. I've seen climbers downclimb all the way to the ground to get a rest to preserve their flash.

I think psychologically, this technique helps control fear by giving you options. You aren't "going for it," you are just trying it to see, and you can always climb back down. The next thing you know, you've gotten yourself into something you can't reverse, you get a flash of panic, make one more move and you are through the crux!

Hmm...

You see, I thought it was just me! What I'm finding is that it's not just me! It seems everyone appears to have similar skeleton's in the closet. That's comforting in itself!

I really appreciate you folks words. It actually solidifies what me and Aaron were thinking, and also the approaches we were going to take to get over this hurdle. Your words also brings a whole lot more ideas to the table as well.

Not least the fact that an on site can be worked from the base of the climb upwards as well as on a top rope and that there are many ways to work the route in order to get over a tricky and intimidating section.

Cheers, Graeme.

Not So Famous Old Dude wrote:One thing that can help is to move up to the crux, think of a possible solution and then pull halfway into it and look around for other holds. If you spot one that looks like it will work to get you over the crux (foot and/or hand), then position yourself on those holds but it you don't feel ready, simply downclimb back to the rest stance. Then, move back up again and do the same thing. As you do this, you'll be wiring the moves getting into the crux position and it will be easier and less strenuous (and less fearful) each time. Eventually, you will probably pull up far enough, and feel comfortable enough to then pull "beyond the point of no return." At that point, your fear of falling will then become an ally in your struggle because you will then know it is better to continue up to the next stance than it is to just fall off right there. This technique was actually discussed by Royal Robbins in one of his old books, I believe. Something about a scary move he had to do at Taquitz one time.

I like that approach - it allows you to learn about yourself and the route and how to work the route and find out what it offers you.

Thanks

- great thread you started Graeme

I'm guessing that your evaluation of the fall was a bit safer than it really was. Not too often is a fall on 5.7 rock really that clean because the rock is not vertical most of the time.

Not So Famous Old Dude's advice is great. Sometimes the moves aren't obvious; if you rush yourself to just get past that tricky section, you might not see the best sequence. Take your time, downclimb and rest as needed, and once you figure out an effective way of pulling through the crux - ah, it's a great feeling.

Good that you're going back to repeat the route. I've repeated many, many routes. It's so rewarding to go back the second or third time with more beta, and more determination - and climb it better than you did the prior time. Maybe you could TR the route, then do it on lead once you know the moves.

*** wrote:Not So Famous Old Dude's advice is great. Sometimes the moves aren't obvious; if you rush yourself to just get past that tricky section, you might not see the best sequence. Take your time, downclimb and rest as needed, and once you figure out an effective way of pulling through the crux - ah, it's a great feeling. Good that you're going back to repeat the route. I've repeated many, many routes. It's so rewarding to go back the second or third time with more beta, and more determination - and climb it better than you did the prior time. Maybe you could TR the route, then do it on lead once you know the moves.

Hi Kateri,

This is very interesting! Are you telling me that occasionally you fail on a route (perhaps even a lower grade route) and come back to fight another day? Now that is cool! I like that! Every route I have failed on I've made a point of going back to - and I've always managed to have a very different climbing experience subsequently. Namely topping out!

Could it just be self-obsessed-ego that makes me think I should be able to just walk up and on-site a route I've not climbed before? Perhaps it is. And that's why I was interested in the ascent history of this or other climbs - I would dearly love to know what the fellas who put up the first ascent went through! I'm sure they didn't just walk up and flash it (in their hobnailed boots)!

I sometimes forget that this is my first ascent of the route and just because someone climbed it before and gave it a grade doesn't mean I don't have fears and demons waiting to leap out at me.

It would be nice to have control over them though!

Best, Graeme.

For me it is often about "Testing the system". Even though I have been climbing for 15 years I still need to "test the water" often to get my head in the right place.

Next time up there go up to your highpoint, assess your gear, move a few feet up then yell "Falling" and jump off. Sometimes I have to do this a few times to fully get myself confident and comfortable that catastrophe doesn't wait around the corner. Now it is no longer the unknown of the fall consequences that is keeping you from commiting.

If you do this and still are not ready to commit to the move, try to aid past it and continue on the route. Once you have gotten up the route you can TR the hard part then clean it and go for it again. With the aiding, sometimes it is just a matter of stepping in a sling and getting established past you last piece and not a full thrash and dangle.

Another option is to try and TR a climb that is really hard for you before going back up on your "project". By working moves at your limit in a safe situation you may find that when you get back on your project that the moves feel easy and your fear is gone.

Good Luck.

Differently similar to Avery's suggestion
mountainproject.com/v/gener…
But Mike Mullendore's post seemed to stick out at me the most. Watch the video and next time you're cruxing: stop, think, "I'm freakin on a 5.7, I need to Harden the F#@% UP"
and then you flash.

mike mullendore wrote:Joshua, this is a great post. Even though I am not as hard a climber as a lot of people on this site, I still think I can give some advice. I like to tell myself on the ground while I am racking up that "I can do this route." Then I break it down into sections and try to see where I can rest and get pro in. I used to think that the positive thinking was a bunch of BS, but now that I actually put it into practice I find that it works pretty well. It reverses that fear mentality of the unknown into a confidence. And if I am still fearful I imagine Chopper Reid yelling at me "Harden the F*$k Up!" which seems to do the trick as well. Watch the video here: youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvj…

GraemeK wrote:Are you telling me that occasionally you fail on a route (perhaps even a lower grade route) and come back to fight another day?

Heck yeah! Grades are relative - let's set them aside. My "project" or flail-fest might be someone else's warmup route.

If you don't make the route, you go home and think about why you didn't succeed. Maybe you were too tired, or you got spooked on lead, or you were just not seeing the moves. Often for me, it's not seeing the sequence - or missing some key hand hold or foot step. Instead of muscling through the crux, grunting and gasping for air, hoping you can hang on, with your feet slipping and sliding... just stop, rest, breath, shake out (I'm kind of repeating what one of my experienced partners keeps telling me). After that, look again at the holds for your hands and feet, and think FOOTWORK! It seems that when the climbing gets harder, the arms want to take over, then they get pumped, and then you tire out and feel like you just can't pull the moves anymore. I often yell at myself "FOOTWORK, DAMMIT, FOOTWORK!" as a gentle reminder...

More often than not it's because the mind can not consciously or subconsciously focus on the moves due to nervousness. The attention is drawn away from climbing and onto falling. I honestly believe that anyone who is in good physical condition can climb 5.10 *IF* they can mentally figure out the moves and "feel" them. So anything below that is really a matter of experience, focus, or will-power.

It happens to me all the time. I get tweeked for gear, place something froma horrible burn-out stance, then after I clip it, look around, see the 'perfect rest stance' and then step into it... where I should have been the whole time. Only happens when I get nervous.

Than said, try to find a way to cool off your head, breathe comfortably and relax a little. You know your body is solid enough, so work on the mind.

I have to build on Kateri's comment regarding grades being relative and 'casting them aside'. There is so much subjectiveness (a word?) that goes into grading routes that one should almost commit to taking that number after the decimal with a few grains of NaCl. My point is illustrated as follows: Many years ago while honing climbing skills in a gym in Colorado Springs during the off-season, i learned that i was able to pull a couple routes that folks climbing consistently several notches higher could not. For the most part, these guys pwn3d just about everything in the gym. There were just a couple, however, that i can recall jumping on after watching them struggle with for a while and i was able to do them.

Were they burned from climbing longer/harder at that point? Could be... Were there other factors at work here such as injuries, reach, shoe dynamics that contributed? Perhaps... but I've seen this happen between other climbers as well. My point is that some folks are stronger on certain routes than others and so I would implore you not to dwell on ratings at this point.

I started out lead climbing for months before ever knowing what a TR was but now I'm dealing with slowly working back into the lead game. It's all a big head game and top rope is a chrysalis that'll spoil you rotten!

If you are in shape and have experience, I would look into something called 'Adrenal Stress disorder', or 'Cortisol Stress'. We can basically burn out our adrenaline glands from using them too much. Caffeine, sugar, and dehydration can all make it worse. Ultimately, you get in a situation where you need adrenaline, and the body says no. Supplements like B vitamins and 'Adrenal-stress' vitamins ban help.

A few years back I was having the same problem. Technically I could work on mid 11's, and even onsighted an 11a, however, I felt like I was going to barf on anything harder than 10a, and I frequently would just
'warm-up' for my entire climbing session. Climbing on gear made me feel nervous as well. I once took a 50 footer off of a mantel move (head first), and the easiest mantels still make me a bit nervous(14 years later). I decided to take a few months off, and went skiing a bunch instead (so much for avoiding the adrenaline). IN the end I missed climbing so much that much of the anxiety was gone when I got back into it. Today all is mostly well, but I still have to watch out for 'burn-out'. If it's not fun, then why bother?
There was an article on panic attacks a few years back in Climbing or Rock and Ice (can't remember which).

-Go to the gym and make yourself try something where you WILL fall.
-Hang from your gear at belays and while at the base to get used to it holding you up.
-Waiting too long at a crux will only make it harder. (just like cliff jumping)
-Lead on gear with a toprope above AND test the gear. (who cares if people laugh, you'll be safe!)
-climb bolted cracks clipping both bolts and some gear to get used to it in a 'safer' fashion.
-If 5.7 is technically easy for you, remind yourself of that while you are climbing. You can probably rest through the crux with stemming/etc.
-sometimes the reward comes from deciding to proceed, even when you are affraid. And sometimes the fear will even keep you from falling.
-Watch high end climbing videos where sicko's repeatedly lob onto trad gear. Most well placed gear is surprisingly strong!