Drug busts near Indian Creek

Very interesting JT.. Then why do you think this "official" UDABC site said what it did..?

How odd that the Statute is linked within this very same website ??? 32A-12-212

I think I'll print it out and stick it in the dash for next time, Thanks so much for pulling the truth out of their ____..!! :)

RanchHand *Thanks* for the heads-up reminder

Hi Kirra--I think the official UDABC website is promoting policy with misinformation. We read it, believe it, and generally abide by it. Policy made.
QUESTION AUTHORITY!
See ya later.

Print this.

Utah cops are whack. Got rolled passing through salina on the way to Vegas. Cop said he smelled weed even though the driver was smoking a cigarette. ended up giving us tickets instead of taking us to jail and we made it to vegas. sometimes the universe unfolds as it should. never ever ever do anything in the car when driving in utah.

The interesting thing is how much the cops in Utah get away with. Living here, its scary. There have been a number of incidents with tazers in the last year where people got tazed for nothing, literally, and then the cops were found (by a panel of cops) to be acting within their right. The short of it is, if your car is being searched don't mouth off... talking back to a Utah patrolman seems to be a "threat to an officer."

Brents Hawks quote from last month:
"It seems like having a Wyoming liscense plates is just probably cause for suspicion of DUI... I guess I can't get mad since, well, they are probably right."

and that is the number one reason i live and climb in the great state of colorado.

The Utah liquor laws are BS, but the transportation aspect of it is more or less unenforced unless you are causing problems for the cops. I've been pulled over in Utah a half dozen times with beer and liquor clearly visible without the DABC stamps and its never been an issue - one officer even joked about how much fun it looked like I was about to have.

But jeez, weed is illegal everywhere and people get busted for it everywhere. Smoking it in the car is just asking for trouble, and if you are transporting it keep it out of site and follow traffic laws absolutely. If you do this you'll be fine. I think weed being illegal is dumb, but it is the law and you have to keep that in mind.

I don't like overzealous law enforcement much and Utah cops go way over the line far too often, but Utah highway patrol also doesn't have a really easy time of it. The state is a big drug transportation corridor, and the empty land is home to a shitload of meth labs. Google utah highway patrol drug busts sometime and look at all of the busts netting hundreds of pounds of drugs coming out of traffic stops. Removing drugs from circulation is a part of their job.

If you are just nice and respectful, say yes sir, no sir, i'm sorry for speeding sir - you will almost always be treated respectfully. I haven't been treated any differently in traffic stops when driving with utah plates or colorado plates, but i am always respectful.

For an eye opener, try driving south to Panama sometime. I was stopped at military checkpoints in Mexico and every other Central American country except Belize for drug searches dozens of times, and saying no is simply not an option.

Some observations over the years . . .
Don't give them a reason to pull you over:
1) Try not to speed in Utah on the state highways
2) Make sure tags are current, no cracked windshield, etc.
3) Advertising any subculture is not a good idea (dead stickers, etc.) Cops profile

Be smart about anything more potent than Pepsi:
1) They CAN ticket you for EACH bottle or can of beer violating the interstate commerce laws of UT. I think the fine was $80 per bottle in the mid-90's. This happened to a friend near Kanab. Andrew above got lucky and met one of the rare nice UT cops. Keep it out of sight.
2) If you are in possession of contraband, assume that dogs will be used and take appropriate measures. Cops don't mind waiting for the canines.
3) When in transit, don't use anything more potent than a Pepsi. Save it for camp.
4) Memorize this phrase: "No sir, I do not consent to a search." If they have probable cause, they don't need your permission. And they are VERY loose with finding probable cause. "Why did you just sneeze, son?"

The areas around Monticello and Kanab are notorious. Monticello-based cops are really bad. I've heard numerous tales over the years. They are on the Creek flight path. Canyonlands National Park Rangers = Cops. They are almost as bad.

Utah is the gauntlet. It's very much like entering Nazi Germany (the purported words of a Monticello lawyer).

Jed Pointer wrote:Pretty sure they can search whatever they want if you are entering or leaving the US. I'd be curious to hear otherwise. That's where I've heard of the most climbers getting busted - heading up to the Bugs or somesuch with weed. I've been searched a few times. It's usually quite thorough - total car teardown including roof box with all your stuff yard-saled all over a parking lot or whatever. Pain in the butt repacking, generally.

Crossing the US border, sure. Different rules for domestic searches. In parts of southwest Texas they will put INS checkpoints between some towns. There is one on the way to the limestone climbing areas on the Pecos River. It's the full drug/alien checkpoint.

Greg wrote:The best way to avoid being arrested is to stop doing drugs. :)

Has this guy completely lost it?? We're talking about climbers here.

Greg wrote:The best way to avoid being arrested is to stop doing drugs. :)

You'd think so, but unfortunately that is not always the case in Utah. If you don't have anything then sometimes that pisses them off more, as I've found out the hard way.

Sound's like they need more important thing's too do! What a bunch of Barnies in Mayberry.

andy peter tretiakoff wrote:Sound's like they need more important thing's too do! What a bunch of Barnies in Mayberry.

Yeah, using state and federal highways to transport and distribute narcotics is such a non-issue. I mean, it's not like meth or smack is a problem in utah.

Cops should just find the bad people and leave the good people alone. I know I can tell the difference between a dirtbag rock climber and a dirtbag drug dealer, they look totally different.

Due to the lack of people of African background in the area, the next supspects for profiling are gonna be Hispanics and then young white male climber types.

Although I do respect the job cops do, it takes a special kinda person to be one. These guys were either total dicks to begin with or were well on there way before joining the department. After being a cop for a while they tend to have very bad relationships with there signifigant others and hit the bottle pretty hard.

It's a tough and very nessacary job that ends up most likely sucking your last ounce of coolnest out of you if you even had any to begin with. Leaving you sitting in front of the TV with your piece in one hand and Jim Beam in the other.

Tico wrote: Yeah, using state and federal highways to transport and distribute narcotics is such a non-issue. I mean, it's not like meth or smack is a problem in utah. Cops should just find the bad people and leave the good people alone. I know I can tell the difference between a dirtbag rock climber and a dirtbag drug dealer, they look totally different.

I totally support their efforts to combat meth and the like, but it would be nice to know just why the f**k they have to waste time hassling everyone who is not involved with that. Seriously, if all you have in the car is... nothing and more importantly- they know it, you'd think that they'd write you up a ticket (if you've broken the law) and send you on your way, no?

Yeah, you'd think so.

Sorry, I don't buy the argument that what they do is needed to combat meth trafficking. Either they are grossly incompetent at dealing with the real problems or they just don't care, or both. Actually the real reason is that there are no checks when it comes to police departments outside of SLC, the populace pretty much lets the police force do whatever they please.

For example, in the wonderful city of Provo, a (mind you, Mormon, so no drugs or booze) friend of mine was throwing a private party with a forty-something year old acoustic guitarist as the entertainment... long story short, he gets a call from the Chief of Police who tells him that the police force there has been briefed... yes briefed! on the upcoming party and if they get any calls from anyone about any disturbances, that he's going to end up in jail. No f**king joke.

Yes, I certainly can see WHY meth is a problem- the cops are always going after the wrong people. Then there's the case a few years back where some people threw a rave on private land, with a permit and their own security, and the SWAT team shows up with helicopters, dogs, the works. Sure they made some drug busts- and you want to know who? The security people who had already checked the ravers for drugs and had seized what drugs there were, that's who they "busted." I think there might have been a couple kids that were also busted, but there were much less than what you'd find at any rock concert or whatever, and we're not talking hard drugs either.

Of course, no one besides the ravers gave a shit about the whole debacle.

Those are just a couple examples of the wrongheaded attitude that helps keep meth and the like a problem here- spectacular wastes of public money and resources. If cops are indeed targeting people going to the Creek, it's not because they think that the people have meth, that's for sure.

S. Gileadi wrote: I totally support their efforts to combat meth and the like, but it would be nice to know just why the f**k they have to waste time hassling everyone who is not involved with that. Seriously, if all you have in the car is... nothing and more importantly- they know it, you'd think that they'd write you up a ticket (if you've broken the law) and send you on your way, no? Yeah, you'd think so. Sorry, I don't buy the argument that what they do is needed to combat meth trafficking. Either they are grossly incompetent at dealing with the real problems or they just don't care, or both. Actually the real reason is that there are no checks when it comes to police departments outside of SLC, the populace pretty much lets the police force do whatever they please. For example, in the wonderful city of Provo, a (mind you, Mormon, so no drugs or booze) friend of mine was throwing a private party with a forty-something year old acoustic guitarist as the entertainment... long story short, he gets a call from the Chief of Police who tells him that the police force there has been briefed... yes briefed! on the upcoming party and if they get any calls from anyone about any disturbances, that he's going to end up in jail. No f**king joke. Yes, I certainly can see WHY meth is a problem- the cops are always going after the wrong people. Then there's the case a few years back where some people threw a rave on private land, with a permit and their own security, and the SWAT team shows up with helicopters, dogs, the works. Sure they made some drug busts- and you want to know who? The security people who had already checked the ravers for drugs and had seized what drugs there were, that's who they "busted." I think there might have been a couple kids that were also busted, but there were much less than what you'd find at any rock concert or whatever, and we're not talking hard drugs either. Of course, no one besides the ravers gave a shit about the whole debacle. Those are just a couple examples of the wrongheaded attitude that helps keep meth and the like a problem here- spectacular wastes of public money and resources. If cops are indeed targeting people going to the Creek, it's not because they think that the people have meth, that's for sure.

I think you might be missing the point of my post, and you might not really understand how law enforcement works (some disclosure: i was briefly a federal leo). I also worked in monticello for while, I know a bunch of those guys.

The officers don't know who the meth dealer is. Who's the "Wrong person"? Seen all those billboards around SLC lately with the soccer-mom meth addict? When you get pulled over, that cop doesn't know if you're the guy who is going to empty a revolver into his chest. He doesn't know if you're an okay guy who likes to burn a doob now and again or a escaped felon with nothing to lose. He's trying to keep a real tragedy from happening, and the price of that is occasionally a minor tragedy (waahh i got pulled over). He's also a human being trying to do a hard job with minimal support from the community (c.f. everybody). He has to assume the worst about you in order to keep on breathing long enough to retire.

Also, i'm surprised noone's mentioned that US-191 is THE major traffic route for drugs coming up from Organ Pipe/Mexico into the US. Of course it's heavily patrolled.

It's fun to gang up on the cops, since people don't generally have good interactions with them. Keep in mind that a lot of these guys are just trying to make their world a little better for everybody.
A lot of them are just assholes, too. A lot of climbers are criminals, assholes, etc. People are people.

But yeah, cops, SAR, fuck all those guys. I could do it soooooo much better but I won't since I have important things to do.

Tico wrote: I think you might be missing the point of my post, and you might not really understand how law enforcement works (some disclosure: i was briefly a federal leo). I also worked in monticello for while, I know a bunch of those guys. The officers don't know who the meth dealer is. Who's the "Wrong person"? Seen all those billboards around SLC lately with the soccer-mom meth addict? When you get pulled over, that cop doesn't know if you're the guy who is going to empty a revolver into his chest. He doesn't know if you're an okay guy who likes to burn a doob now and again or a escaped felon with nothing to lose. He's trying to keep a real tragedy from happening, and the price of that is occasionally a minor tragedy (waahh i got pulled over). He's also a human being trying to do a hard job with minimal support from the community (c.f. everybody). He has to assume the worst about you in order to keep on breathing long enough to retire. Also, i'm surprised noone's mentioned that US-191 is THE major traffic route for drugs coming up from Organ Pipe/Mexico into the US. Of course it's heavily patrolled. It's fun to gang up on the cops, since people don't generally have good interactions with them. Keep in mind that a lot of these guys are just trying to make their world a little better for everybody. A lot of them are just assholes, too. A lot of climbers are criminals, assholes, etc. People are people. But yeah, cops, SAR, fuck all those guys. I could do it soooooo much better but I won't since I have important things to do.

No, you aren't getting MY point. What do the cops do once they have established that the person that they are dealing with is not dangerous and does not possess any hard drugs?

That is the issue I'm most concerned about.

Second in importance is that they do indeed concentrate on going after people that are not going to have meth- how many busts have there been of climbers visiting the Creek that have actually been for meth, and not weed or beer?

Also, you might remember a few years back there was a law proposed here that would lessen the consequences for being busted with a very small amount of weed- who do you suppose shut that down? That's right, the boys in blue did.

Again, I support their efforts at combating hard drugs, but there is too much effort spent in areas that only detract from that.

Tico wrote: When you get pulled over, that cop doesn't know if you're the guy who is going to empty a revolver into his chest. He doesn't know if you're an okay guy who likes to burn a doob now and again or a escaped felon with nothing to lose. ... He's also a human being trying to do a hard job with minimal support from the community (c.f. everybody). He has to assume the worst about you in order to keep on breathing long enough to retire.

Well, that is the cost of a war on drugs. I wouldn't want that job, especially not for that pay. Ever read a psychological profile on anyone who does? That, my friend, is what is frightening.

Hah, all the Coloradans complaining about Utah is always good for a laugh. Nazi Germany, really? I've been driving all over the state for six years now, and I've only had one bad situation, that I'll admit I got very lucky on. But it was my dumb-ass fault for thinking 89A sounded like a nice scenic cruise, forgetting it goes through the notorious town of Hildale. It sucks they've set up some sort of stoned climber nabbing speed trap on the way to the creek though, thanks for the timeless reminder to not break more than one law at a time.

Andrew Gram wrote:If you are just nice and respectful, say yes sir, no sir, i'm sorry for speeding sir - you will almost always be treated respectfully.

That's not been my experience, when my buddy was unintentionally speeding on the way to zion and we were pulled over.