Clear Creek Burglaries

Tony--

Right on. I think if civilians stood up for themselves a little more, crimes rates would see a drop. Of course, no possessions are worth dying for. But imagine if you were a burglar and you knew that a high percentage of the homes in your area were occupied by gun-toting individuals; would you be more likely to give up your trade for another? I sure as shit would.

This "make my day" law (that I'm probably making up the name of) states that even if you see someone running away from your property and you know they stole something, you can still shoot them in the back! At least that's how I understood it went the law was passed. Obviously, it was pretty controversial.

--Marc

Marc Horan wrote:Tony-- Right on. I think if civilians stood up for themselves a little more, crimes rates would see a drop. Of course, no possessions are worth dying for. But imagine if you were a burglar and you knew that a high percentage of the homes in your area were occupied by gun-toting individuals; would you be more likely to give up your trade for another? I sure as shit would. This "make my day" law (that I'm probably making up the name of) states that even if you see someone running away from your property and you know they stole something, you can still shoot them in the back! At least that's how I understood it went the law was passed. Obviously, it was pretty controversial.

The press called it that. But in Colorado, as I recall, you can NOT shoot or otherwise hurt someone who is fleeing or who is no longer a threat. You shoot them in the back, and you'll go to jail.

There are also so called 'force continuum' states (Like Indiana, where I used to live) where you are allowed to escallate 'force' in self defence. IE- if you are in danger of physical harm, you can use deadly force in self defense. I believe Colorado is NOT one of those.

I was mugged in Indiana in 1991. I fought back. We all got hurt to some degree. I had a knife but did NOT stab any of the 4 perpetrators, I kicked and punched. The cops were called to the scene & detained all of us. They inspected my knife which had less than 6" of cutting edge as per Indiana law and released me & gave me my knife back. They asked why I did not use the knife in defense. I replied that I did not want to do time for murder. They explained to me that if I can convince a jury that I thought I was in danger of bodily injury or had been injured (I had been kicked in the face a few times), that I was free to use any means or force I wished in self defense, including deadly force. Again, that is my 18 year old recollection and I do NOT think Colorado is similar anyway.

Tony--

Gotcha. I am not planning on shooting anyone--in the back or otherwise. I don't even own a gun. I just thought it was a very interesting law.

Thank you for answering my question regarding whether Colorado had passed any laws similar to the "make my day" law.

In regards to your attack: It's my understanding that you can always defend yourself, regardless of what state you're in. I know that if I had a weapon and I felt that someone was trying to cause bodily harm (or death) to me, I would most certainly use whatever means available to me to prevent said harm. You can't do anything from the grave.

But again, the above is a hypothetical situation.

--Marc

Tony Bubb wrote:But in Colorado, as I recall, you can NOT shoot or otherwise hurt someone who is fleeing or who is no longer a threat. You shoot them in the back, and you'll go to jail.

Tony, there was actually a case in '05 where a man sitting in his car was shot in the back by a homeowner. HO found not guilty. Article also describes CO Statute 18-1-704.5 aka "Make My Day"

"Make My Day-Better" almost passed in '07 to include businesses and vehicles, but missed getting through the Senate. Wonder if you could make a case if someone was 'living' in their car...know any volunteers..?

~ off topic - weapons related ~ If Congress gets it's way, we could soon be packin' heat in the Natnl Parks
coloradoconfidential.com/sh…;jsessionid=C72111639922647FACD3A11930A9306B?diaryId=3492

Of course, you wouldn't want to harm anyone, even if they were an evil douchebag, right? I'm just saying that there IS alot of incidental rockfall in the canyon; if some moron thief happened to get struck... if you know what i mean. It would be, like, an act of nature really!

Just be careful, sometimes it turns out the dude you're calling out is a real bad dude... you could get beat up for trying to protect your stuff, especially if you're the average skinny climber.

Don't they know that most climbers are pretty broke?

So after reading this post I decided to post a sign in my vehicle today when I went to clear creek to solo ice.

left in my car window
this wasn't an empty promise either. from where I was and the shotgun that I carried I could have easily reached to my car. and the dove rounds would've left enough sting, probably not killed anyone, but how great would that be when a guy that has been breaking into cars walks into the e.r. and says, "ya so today, I was jacking hard working people's shit out of their cars in clear creek and this owner had the balls to shoot me. now I have all these pellets in my rear end and need someone to remove them."

People,

Seriously be careful here.

Let me give you a little story. I was riding my bike in the canyon and getting yelled at, as I made it to the grocery store in Nederland I saw a person and vented saying, geez I wish one of those people would just stop the car and I would beat them up (cause I am big and tough and can free climb the second flatiron)....

The person told me how in a previous year he saw a person tailing some other car and a little road rage happened. The cars stop and one person pulled a machine gun out and shot some rounds around the other person/car.

Here is another one, I was hiking with my kids (9 and 5 years old) around the reservoir and I guess I went on some private property, over walkie-talkies a mother told her teen-age kids to go get the guns and shoot us .....

So do not assume that these people stealing from your cars are cool beans type of people. Just put a sign or something in your car stating that nothing valuable is in it, you can even leave the doors open .....

Not at all trying to be a dick here but in these situations people assume the other parties are rational like they are which is not always the case.

Kevin

I would just like to note that the frustration that this issue has caused is completely understandable. However, these criminals have unwittingly managed to bring; folks out enjoying the canyon; down to their level or somewhere there in. Let's take a look at this:

If you had taken a shot at someone breaking into your vehicle you would have no doubt have been firing towards the road. What if some of that bird shot struck a passing motorist? Did you also happen to consider that you would be breaking some pretty strong gun owner ethics by firing towards a road way.

By possessing a firearm in Clear Creek Canyon you were in violation of JeffCo OS rules.

I believe in the 2nd Amendment, and fully support people carrying firearms for their protection. This right however comes with a heavy burden, to be responsible with the power which is in your possession. Turning to vigilante justice on the side of a US Highway in not the way to solve this problem. It would not doubt solve the immediate problem, but the list of potential new problems affecting you more than a broken window could be great.

What is ethically wrong here? I know that hunters can't fire from a road way, that is why they step into the barrow ditch. you know as a kid we had a farmer where I spent some time that loaded rock salt in shotgun loads and would use it on stray dogs and what not. wouldn't kill just give a real good sting. I'm sure these cats aren't breaking into vehicles when the masses are passing by. I was there on a tuesday and not a soul around. and if I did get stopped by the police and ticketed, so what. I think this would bring the problem to the fore front. Look, if are vice president can take a load of bird shot at close range and live I'm sure the kid that is in that picture that is stealing would live.

anything in the regs & laws about having a barby under some soloist stuck at an anchor in their skivies?

Does anyone have an update on Clear Creek? A friend wants to go climbing there, but I'm a bit wary due to this thread.

Is there anywhere "safe" to park? Specifically parking near a wall with hard 12's and "easy" 13's on it?

I'm guessing the thefts and window smashing are still going on based on the continuing call for vigilante justice?

Thanks.

How about tagging the guy (& the horse he road in on) with carefully aimed paint balls...shouldn't make him to hard to find for the proper authorities and if targeted creatively, the only injuries would be to his imaginary sense of self esteem. Personally I'm with Bob if for no other reason, petty theft isn't worth risking getting shot to prevent; the thief you go after could be armed and dangerous.

I got it. We set up a huge tyrolean and slide down from the crags if someone is messing with the cars. If it's a false alarm, we at least had fun sliding down, right?

or we just pay Bob D to matre'd our parking during his day shifts.

Kirk Miller wrote:How about tagging the guy (& the horse he road in on) with carefully aimed paint balls...shouldn't make him to hard to find for the proper authorities and if targeted creatively, the only injuries would be to his imaginary sense of self esteem. Personally I'm with Bob if for no other reason, petty theft isn't worth risking getting shot to prevent; the thief you go after could be armed and dangerous.

thats a good call....but sorry to say, my friend got assault with a deadly weapon for shooting someone with a paintball in new york...now that i live in gun friendly colorado tho...who knows, go assault rifle style

The best thing to shoot is hi def video with a telephoto lens. These security cameras aren't worth beans, they are so low definition. Then follow the kid and call in their car as you drive. Police arrive and you hand over the evidence. DA gets an easy conviction. You got it.

I'm starting to see a script here.

kevin fox wrote: Look, if are vice president can take a load of bird shot at close range and live

close but that is not as funny as what actually happen. Dick was the shooter.

Here's one: I'm tooling around some boulders and scrambles in the forest. Fairly easy to access for the public. I top out on something and here is this guy standing with a sidearm.

We get to talking and he's from Gamecock country -- a wanna be redneck area (sorry, can't help it, I'm a Seminole). So I ask him what he's packin. Some type of Sat. night special. So I ask him: "Hey, did you file the nose sight off?"

"Well, no. What the heck ya do that fer??"

So it won't hurt so much when the bear/lion shoves it up your ass.

Peace out!

(Langston - you couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, friggin cow puncher. You guys have a hard enough time hitting all the roadsigns)

Bob D'Antonio wrote: Over a car stereo or something like that...funny.

I'm OK with it. There is no space in open society for career criminals.
You think that's all this person is doing wrong? Stealing stereos? Uh huh... No.