New reports of alien failures

Over on sp.com there is discussion about a couple of alien failures over the weekend.

supertopo

i wonder how many of these "failures" are actually the result of user error such as bad placement or the cam walking because the leader didn't sling long. i'm not saying these people are wrong when they say their cams failed but after the recall it seems like any alien failures will be attributed to the gear being bad, regardless of whether it really did fail or the user simply made a bad placement.

Jon Ruland wrote:i wonder how many of these "failures" are actually the result of user error such as bad placement or the cam walking because the leader didn't sling long.

Have there been reports of other cams pulling apart in a fall? I've heard of cams zippering due to bad placements or poor rock quality, not the cam itself breaking. Any BD, Metolius, WC cams actually break under "normal" fall conditions?

Jon Ruland wrote:i wonder how many of these "failures" are actually the result of user error such as bad placement or the cam walking because the leader didn't sling long.

Mark Cushman wrote: Have there been reports of other cams pulling apart in a fall? I've heard of cams zippering due to bad placements or poor rock quality, not the cam itself breaking. Any BD, Metolius, WC cams actually break under "normal" fall conditions?

Don't mind him, M.C.. It's emotionally very difficult for some to admit to themselves that Alien cams manufactured after 10/04 are not to be trusted, regardless if they've been stamped "tensile tested" or not. I think with a little therapy he'll soon be right as rain.

I wish I could say the same about CCH. I'm still waiting to get the official notice of where the wake will be held.

Mark Cushman wrote: Have there been reports of other cams pulling apart in a fall? I've heard of cams zippering due to bad placements or poor rock quality, not the cam itself breaking. Any BD, Metolius, WC cams actually break under "normal" fall conditions?

I've broken a couple of older camalots (u-stem style) and one older wired bliss or HB (can't remember). Cams have always broken, but now we have the internet to let us know some dubious information from somebody you don't know about it (see above). I'm told that a OP cam broke recently, but the rc.com wankfire was quickly quelled by some PR on OP's part.

It's a shame those metolius rip-offs have a number of glaring faults, the CCH units are still the best design.

Looks like the latest broken Alien hype is just the result of a broken trigger wire. Sucks that it happened during a fall though. Gotta inspect your gear for frayed wires and signs of general wear.

Giza wrote: Gotta inspect your gear for frayed wires and signs of general wear.

I don't think that wire broke from wear. It seems the cam lobe inverted and snapped the wire. I've seen the same thing happen on an alien place in a horizontal that flared as it got deeper. I'd say you'd be better off checking your placements.

In the case of the Alien 'breaking' reported on RC.com - that turned out to be pilot error resulting in the cams inverting snaping one of the trigger wires.

But let's not confuse and obfusticate pre- and post-recall Alien cams from CCH breaking with other cams over the history of climbing; each has their own history and track record. And cams don't just break - they're either misused, have a design issue, or are badly manufactured. In the case of Aliens, there have a number of cams from sometime in late '04 on fail due to manufacturing defects. Unfortunately, the Aliens likely to fail cannot reliably be identified by any means at this point - the only way to know an Alien made from late '04 on is safe is to test it yourself or find someone other than CCH to test it for you.

Giza wrote:Looks like the latest broken Alien hype is just the result of a broken trigger wire. ...

For those so inclined like myself as a tinkerer; there's a kit you can get to make minor cam repairs. I got mine from the Bent Gate, but here's a link to the kit:

thecamdoctor.com/trigger-wi…

Healyje wrote: And cams don't just break - they're either misused, have a design issue, or are badly manufactured.

Are you a mechanical engineer? I'd say that anything made out of metal, especially with moving parts, has a finite lifetime, after which it will "just break", independent of misuse, design flaws or manufacturing.

Although I suppose with your beloved Metolius cams, it's easier to define "misuse". As a gunks climber I wrecked a bunch of tcu's (cables began to break) by taking big whips on them stuffed into shallow horizontals. Was this "misuse"? I'd just call it "use". I guess if you create a narrow definition of what constitutes a correct placement, then anything outside that is misuse, but that's exactly what the CCH design is about, weird placements.

The anti-CCH ranting always remind me of Tom Frost (a stanford engineer, btw) who the last time we met was only climbing on aliens and those WC helium biners, he said he enjoyed the perfect engineering of both.

Tico wrote:Although I suppose with your beloved Metolius cams, it's easier to define "misuse". As a gunks climber I wrecked a bunch of tcu's (cables began to break) by taking big whips on them stuffed into shallow horizontals. Was this "misuse"? I'd just call it "use". I guess if you create a narrow definition of what constitutes a correct placement, then anything outside that is misuse, but that's exactly what the CCH design is about, weird placements.

So if you are going to this analogy, you should at least compare apples to apples. It's like saying I drove on the same car tire for 200,000 miles and it blew vs. I was driving my new car home from the dealership and the wheel fell off.

Stymingersfink wrote: Don't mind him, M.C.. It's emotionally very difficult for some to admit to themselves that Alien cams manufactured after 10/04 are not to be trusted, regardless if they've been stamped "tensile tested" or not. I think with a little therapy he'll soon be right as rain. I wish I could say the same about CCH. I'm still waiting to get the official notice of where the wake will be held.

i don't even use aliens, i simply like to question what i hear instead of taking it for granted. nice comment though, tool.

How are any of us still alive?

Broken Micro Metolius TCU
Broken OP link cam (recalled)
Failien
Broken dyneema sling