Rock Empire Cams

I was wondering if anyone could give me input on Rock Empire cams. I was on the internet looking at all the gear I can't afford, and i stumbled across the Rock Empire site advertising cams starting at 29.99 per unit. Has anyone used these, and if so are they worth buying?

-Nate

Nate, I have the full set of Durangos and the 2 largest Pulsars. IMO, they are not nearly as good as BD camolots or other major market brands. They are slightly harder to place, have less of an expansion range, and are not nearly as smooth. With that being said, they are rated and certified and I've fallen on many of them. The pulsars (at least the big ones) are crap and I never climb with them anymore. They walk to much and tend to invert, which means they're easy to screw up.

If you're climbing easy routes where you can fiddle with placements, not a bad starter set. Personally I wish I would have just gotten a half set of C4's instead to start with. I don't ever carry them on my rack anymore unless I need to specifically double or triple up on a particular size. I used them as my sole cams for about 1.5 years climbing once a week with them and they still work fine for what they are.

So in short, they're cheaper because they're not quite as good as other brands, but still rated, safe, and reliable (except the damn pulsars).

Hope that helps.

Thanks allot Jordan. I have a full sets of the C4 and C3's and i love them, but i got a little bit excited when I saw cams going for that cheap. I guess it is like they say, " you get what you pay for"

-nate

I have the 3 small durangos, and a buddy has the full set. I find them easier to place than C4's sometimes, but there is little crossover with the sizes I have. They do have stiffer action. I like them for a cheap compliment to my C4's.

When I first started leading I bought a set of Robots #1-5. They're pretty durable, I've whipped on every size. Some cheap cams don't inspire confidence when placed, but I find the Robots to be pretty trustworthy. As noted above, the larger sizes might walk a bit, just sling'em out and it's not a problem.

I have the two largest sizes of Comet Cams (#6, 7). I bought them as a cheaper substitute to the equivalent BD or WC cams. In terms of price, they can't be beat. I bought both, on sale, for $93 combined. Even full price, they're only $108 combined. They have thus far worked very well, relatively easy to place. I have noticed they can walk if the crack bottoms out, but that's the case with almost all cams. If you have disposable income, by all means, buy either BD or WC, as they tend to be more stable in the larger sizes (at least in my experience). But you can basically get two comets for the price of one BD, so why not.

According to Rock Empire's website, the Durango cam is the same cam as the Trango Flexcam. The only difference is a couple of bucks.

The flex cam is slightly different from what I remember. My friend has one and the durangos are slightly upgraded / better.

My pulsars (the two largest ones) both had the cam stops fall out of them. They are just held in by friction and the more use the cam gets, the more likely they'll fall out and the cam heads will spin around freely becoming useless to place on lead. It's not an essential piece that would make the cam fail, but shoddy quality is shoddy quality. Like I said, the big cams by rock empire suck.

I have a full set of the Rock Empire Robocams (micros only) and they are as solid as any other micro tcu's I've placed (c3's, aliens, etc). They're no C3, but aren't near as expensive...But they'll save your life just like a c3 does! I believe that they are well worth the price I paid (cheap!). I can't say much for the larger Rock Empire sizes, as I have Camolots and Trango Flex cams in the med-lrg stuff.

I've started out with a full set of Robot Cams about 7 years ago. They've all worked fine (larger sizes tend to walk). I've fallen on all of them plenty. I'm glad I bought them when I did cause I couldn't afford anything else, and it was at least something. I've since replaced them with Camalots, but I'll still bring them into service when I need an extra of the same size. Only place I absolutely will not use them is Indian Creek. I recommend them if you're just starting out or a dirtbag (like myself).

I have a hard time finding old style cams that are new. Most of them are used, I rather trust rock empire than used cams.

Can anyone tell me....Is it true that Rock Empire cams are assembled by prison inmates. i was told this by a few other climbers.

All I can say is this the Orange Bohemian RULES- try it at the creek when your # 2 looks crappy and the # 3 doesnt fit.

these cams offer great overlap for camelots and are cheap.

Wow, it seems like a really mixed bag on this. I dont know what to think anymore, between this and the forum i just read on aliens i am tempted to leave all my active pro at home and go with hexes, stoppers, and tricams. They are simple and we cant really debate their performance, they just work.

I had a pretty healthy set of Robot Cams in the past. I've sold them since I moved a LONG way away from any cracks. However, when I had them, I used them quite a bit. I never had any problems with them. From the Black on up, they will tend to walk if you don't sling them properly. Sure, they aren't as smooth and easy to place as a C4, but what do you expect for 1/2 the price? They work pretty well and like Crisp said, they fill out a rack nicely by filling the middle ground between the BDs. Orange Bohemians are $MONEY$ for all but the last 20' of Super Crack. Blue Bohemians are solid on IHC. Spaghetti Western = Orange, etc, etc, etc.

They will treat you well.

Not to mention, they trated me really well on the phone.

John Langston wrote:Ugh, Omega used to use prison labor and it was stellar. The inmates were well paid and their workmanship was top notch. They no longer do this due to many reasons, one of them being the bad PR they got from this. And divnamite, do you want to go climbing tomorrow? I've got rack, rope, gear...oh wait, all mine is used. I don't have any gear that's new anymore, it's probably not safe. We better use your gear, you've never used it right? I wouldn't feel comfortable if you had. Just to double check, you're bringing an extra harness for me too cause mine's not still new. Seriously, I'm getting sketched out. Eldo entrance, 9:00, if your gear doesn't all have original tags on it I'm going home.

Easy, take a deep breath, have a coke and a smile. My point is, between buying used gears without knowing their history vs buying new rock empire cams, I would pick new rock empire cams anytime. I have rock empire, they work fine. They aren't as nice as BD, but if you want to climb and short on cash, they are a decent substitue for BD.

divnamite wrote: Easy, take a deep breath, have a coke and a smile. My point is, between buying used gears without knowing their history vs buying new rock empire cams, I would pick new rock empire cams anytime. I have rock empire, they work fine. They aren't as nice as BD, but if you want to climb and short on cash, they are a decent substitue for BD.

I'd apraise the soundness of, then purchase, used BD cams well before I spent money on a new cam of an off-brand. Sure, the new cam is probably safe enough (unless they're assembled by CCH, I'll give ya that), but their long-term usability and where they fit into my rack is as important if not more so than saving a few bucks to purchase a new piece.

If your experience is lacking such that you are unable to determine for yourself whether a used cam (your own, bootied, or purchased from someone you do not know) is safe to climb over, perhaps you should stick to sport climbing?

For that matter, with bolts comes a distinct inability to fully examine in situ gear to ensure they are safe to climb over. Perhaps you might give up climbing for knitting instead? The incidence of self-mutilation via knitting needles is at an all-time low these days...

I like my rock empire cams. I bought them in 2003 and still use most of them. In that time I've retired as many BD's as RE's (one each-and the BD was a 6month old, no-falls C3 unit that started sticking closed! Still bitter). From my experience they're durable. A solid, legitimate option if your poor and wanting to climb trad. Although, as you point out, passive gear is a good investment, too.
One point though: this is the as-yet-unmentioned reason that RE's are worse than other more popular (expensive) brands in my opinion.
And it's not immediately obvious. They have fewer total units to cover the range from 10mm to 100mm. RE has 8 units, but Friends and Metolius have more. That means there are more gaps in a rack of REs. (BD doesn't have as many units as, say, friends, but they can do this because each unit has such exceptional range). These gaps (lack of overlap between units) may eventually annoy you as you invest in supplemental gear to fill them in. It did annoy me...
In my experience with RE's, this is their biggest drawback, and they only way in which they fit the 'get what you pay for' cliche.
In the durability, utility, safe-ness, weight, and range departments, they're comparable to name brands I've climbed with. (Except BD is superior in range, of course).
I also know 3 other dirtbag-climbers who've used RE's since 2003-2004, and like them. They all are switching to BD as their income rises, though.
What's a Bohemian?

Don't drink and knit,
kyle

If you buy used BD camalots, you can send them into BD and they will pull test and inspect them for you. Also, for a small fee they'll resling them with new webbing. So the used cams will get a professional inspection and tune up. BD is the only company I'm sure does this, but others might. You'd have to call them to find out.

The bohemian terminology came from a guy that I met at the creek a few years ago- He dressed kind of funny, big sweat pants, tube socks, white puma tennis shoes, old highschool hoodie sweat top, floppy birth control hat...the guy also wore these sweatbands around his wrists like the ones you saw richard simmons making popular in the early 80's. I think thats why I remember him also the fact he would just crank these route without effort- amazing dude. He couldnt climb wide stuff for crap though, just that evil red camelot and smaller sizes.

He would rack up for a route, send the thing, then come down- when asked about the gear he would list it out in rapid staccato and that would include the words orange bohemian-I had to ask and he showed me the bohemians- I just started to use that terminology.

I think I figured out why the crazy dude was calling the cams bohemians: read on.....

I believe the cams are manufactured over in eastern europe hence the name bohemians. I think it is better terminology when at the creek mostly because requesting a couple of blue and orange bohemians implies completely different sizes then the black diamond sizes.

Cant say it any more-

The Bohemians RULE!

Stymingersfink wrote: I'd apraise the soundness of, then purchase, used BD cams well before I spent money on a new cam of an off-brand. Sure, the new cam is probably safe enough (unless they're assembled by CCH, I'll give ya that), but their long-term usability and where they fit into my rack is as important if not more so than saving a few bucks to purchase a new piece. If your experience is lacking such that you are unable to determine for yourself whether a used cam (your own, bootied, or purchased from someone you do not know) is safe to climb over, perhaps you should stick to sport climbing? For that matter, with bolts comes a distinct inability to fully examine in situ gear to ensure they are safe to climb over. Perhaps you might give up climbing for knitting instead? The incidence of self-mutilation via knitting needles is at an all-time low these days...

Errr, what are you talking about??? RE cams aren't bad, no one say they are better than BD, as long as they do the job, why wouldn't you use them?