Stashed Crash Pads in RMNP

yea okay, so we all got trolled over. But I still can't figure out how you came up with "fixed pads"??

1st I personally think that Bouldering 10 feet of rock in an area where 1000 foot walls abound is lame in a ghey way. Akin to descending into the Black Canyon to go bouldering. OOOh how cool is that. But stashing non bio-degradable crash pads in pristine areas with tenuous access is pathetically stupid! If I find them the are gone! Sack up and pack out.
It does not matter "how hard" you climb this practice is utter B.S.

From my perspective very few boulderers have a clue about how much environmental damage their pass time is causing. Erosion, devegetation,
compaction, litter and now stash pads. Selfish lazy punters.

If pads are being left for weeks at a time in Chaos Canyon then I agree with the others saying that they should be removed by climbers. Post a note online and at the local gear shops if you want to get the gear back to its owner.

Rushing off to apologize to a ranger for what another climber did is foolish!
The more we bother them with this kind of stupid shit, the closer we get to more regulations. This issue should be handled by climbers until the NPS decides that they want to jump into the frey. When that happens, then it is time to show the NPS what we, as climbers, are doing to keep the park pristine.

veritus wrote:Chill bros. As long as the people stashing pads are mindful of the situation and they aren't leaving the pads for more than a reasonable amount of time (subjective I know) and as long as it doesn't become an issue with NPS then why complain. Who made it right for anyone to take the law into their own hands and remove the pads. Sounds like we have some NPS Vigilantes here.

What we have is not NPS vigilantes, but fellow climbers concerned about access and leaving wilderness areas pristine. I find it hard to understand how you can defend leaving pads out for an admittedly indeterminate amount of time. Obviously, when it becomes an issue with NPS, then we have an access problem. Waiting for it to become a problem is irresponsible and foolish. If "the people stashing pads were mindful of the situation," then they wouldn't be stashing pads. Just carry the pad out with you, it's only 10 lbs.

Other concerned humans,

Let me say again, this isn't a new problem! This has been going on for a LOOOOONG time. The pad stashing in Chaos is like nothing I have ever heard of going on, anywhere!

We are talking about dozens of pads in the peaks.

What everyone doesn't understand is that with progress comes sacrifice, just think how much harder everyone will climb knowing that access will get shut down soon.

Take Chaos Canyon Forward!

And speaking of leaving trash, what's up with the huge 200 ft of fixed rope strung up across the creek from Boulder Falls parking lot? I'm sure another "classic" route is being drilled but it looks trashy, especially given how many people see it daily.

Jay

this is indeed a sad situation. i've never bouldered in this area but have hiked around it and it doesn't take much to be deeply inspired and moved by such suroundings. it is indeed one of those special places on this earth. many people around this country drive out here to check out the biznass but those of us who live along the front range and play in such a grand place are truly blessed.

we have close accesse to exceptional bouldering, cragging, alpine/mountaineering and snow. yes we are blessed souls. i, like many others who play out here have been inspired, motivated,challenged and flat out beatn' up but we continue such endevours because when we go out there it just feels right (maybe because we are conecting with our primitive past), it feels good, and well, it makes us feel alive. the mountains have given us alot and the least we can do is repay the favor by taking care of them.

d.c.

caughtinside wrote: wasn't trying to troll, just make a funny. fixed pads=fixed draws? project pads? bail biners/bail pads? oh well. ALso, I apologize if I upset anyone, with my post, their tone, or language. I'm not going to edit because I think that's lame, but I am sorry if I offended anyone or detracted from the discussion. just trying to have a little fun. carry on.

For the record, I laughed. Please carry on, this site is far too humorless much of the time.

Hey, I need some help, someone pull my finger..

I have been climbing in RMNP for 14 years, I have walked through Chaos and emerald many times and moons ago before worthless boulderers could get on these forums and spray about there worthless 10 feet of climbing that they jerked off on for 2 years, so they could tell everyone they sent there sick V whatever and here is my sick photo of myself being rad to prove it. I have watched the invasion of the pad people grow like a pine beetle epidemic. Mutating at expponantially unpredictable numbers.

I agree with P Broskavic, Why would you go up there to wrestle 10 feet of a pebble with Hallets soaring above you? I will never forget the first pad session I witnessed up there in the late 90's early Y2k or so. I saw pad people in a place I did not understand on boulders I wrestled years ago as a quick pit stop while descending from Hallets. I stopped to talk to them in disbelief as to there efforts to come up here to boulder. They talked to me like I was from another planet after I stated that I too was a climber.

What really took me by storm was that they had names for all these 10 foot pebbles and actually were spewing out problem names left and right and ratings like V0 this and that. I asked in disbelief? This boulder has a name? I spent the next 5 minutes explaining to them that the big rock up there was Hallets, and it deserves a name along with the routes on it. I don't think they understood that people climbed up there. Anyway, I could tell there was a new revolution in town, It has only gotten worse.

I discovered a pristine untouched area of boulders while looking for new trad lines, they were convienent and clean nice flat landing problems. We had a session or two en route to some nice cragging. It was not long before the wrong person was shown, and about 2 weeks later stashed there were, huge sticks and bar b cue brushes taped to them, along with pads, and get this, An ALLUMINUM FRICKING LADDER!!!!!! Since when is a ladder a piece of climbing equipment?

It is getting bad and I agree, Take the pads out, sell them for profit and tell the PHAGGY PAD PEOPLE TO LEARN ABOUT THERE ENVIRONMENT AND TO LEARN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE TRADITION OF THERE SPORT AND WERE IT CAME FROM. These are the mountains, lets keep them that way.

One more rant, I do agree that stashed diamond gear is no better for arguments sake, but I do challenge you to go up to Mills or Chasm lake and see how many racks you can find. Then go up to Chaos and see how many pads you can find, although not arguablly any better, you will not find a rack that has been cached unless you are shown by the culprit.

I was up there this weekend. We weren't even trying to find pads and they were everywhere. We found nearly a dozen in 10 min. Most not even hidden just sitting at the base of the problems they were working on. On top of that we found three that had been there for at least a year buried in snow in there stash spot! I say take out as many as we can to clean up the park! If these guys aren't tough enough to climb and pack out their stuff, their too weak to be up there climbing!

Haag

Haag,

Are you kidding? Nearly a dozen in 10 minutes? Three that were still lodged in the snow from last year?

If that's true then I emphatically support people taking them.

WTF!

looks like I am going shopping for a bouldering pad this weekend.

I went with Haag, and another friend back up to Chaos again this weekend. He's telling it exactly like it is. We arrived fairly early in the day and bouldered our way up the canyon. On our hike back out of Chaos is when we spotted all the pads. We did find two or three that were still frozen in ice/snow from last winter. I guess those are the fixed pads, Mark. We left those as I think they will be able to be retrieved in two more weeks, or at least I hope so. We also found two more stashed in the upper canyon, one was a Mad Rock pad that had been chewed on all four corners, not worn from being used, but chewed. There was another pad stashed with the Mad Rock one. It was in very bad shape. One whole side of it was ripped open and its plastic was blowing in the wind. We picked these up and started to hike them out.
So, now the three of us are carrying a total of seven pads. The three that each of us owned, plus the two really beat up ones, and two more we found that are in decent shape (more on those later). It was with these in tow that we ran into the angry guy. He wanted to know what we were doing with the pads. We told him. I should also mention that he and the guy he was with were not carrying any pads at all. He accused us of stealing, he said that those were for people's projects. He wanted the two beat up ones back. After he promised to hike them out we gave them to him. I really hope he did.
So, I now have a crash pad that I don't really want. If you can describe it to me, I'll return it too you. I'd love to get it off my hands, it smells really bad.
Chris

First off, thanks to Chris for bringing this to the community's attention.

I just stumbled across this thread, having been away from Mountain Project for a few weeks. On one hand it is a surprise to me; on the other hand I'm not surprised at all.

I'm not a boulderer at all; I think the first time I realized Chaos Canyon was prime bouldering ground was several years back when the park required bus transit through the construction zone. Suddenly my bus was filled with bouldering pads attached to boulderers. I'd never noticed a boulderer in the park before that.

There are a lot of folks that know the park much better than I, but I've probably spent about 10-15 days/yr in the park for the past 7 or 8 years. So, the place is dear to my heart and one of the reasons I'd be challenged to ever leave the Front Range.

I understand the park regulations about stashed gear, and the 24 hour limitation on fixed/stashed gear. I also understand the need to occasionally bend the rules. However, if you're going to bend the rules, then IMO you've gotta stick to the following:
- No one had better find it/it can't be visibly seen
- It'd better not be an item that is capable of easily being picked apart by pikas, marmots, or birds
- It'd better not be cached there more than a week or two unused, unless you're on a multi-week climb that requires it

If I said anything else, I'd be a hypocrite. It's standard practice to cache food and gear on big mountains. However, there is a big difference between doing it right, and doing it wrong. You can tell when someone does it wrong, because there are food wrappers and other crap swirling around the areas for weeks.

I've never cached gear in RMNP, but at a minimum would consider it in the future if I went to aid a route on the diamond. Anything else is insanity for the weekend warrior, if you don't hire horses. However, you can bet I would cache it 'professionally' one weekend, work the route the following weekend, then get my crap out of there when I was done.

So, my point of all this is that I can see both sides; however, I crash pads don't fit the bill for caching. They're huge. I can't envision a good way to hide them from view and protect them from the animals. From the sounds of it, I'd guess they're just sitting under boulders in relatively plain sight to those hiking around the boulders. Furthermore, it's not a physical feat to hike to that canyon with a bouldering pad, so the whole caching pads is pretty weak sauce.

It does sounds like there are other issues, such as erosion -- but perhaps those aren't as easy to correct in a short period of time.

Does anyone have any pictures to share? If you do head in, please take and post some -- I think we'd all be interested to see if the written descriptions match the visual. I'm sure they do.

To combat the issue of oxygen bottles on Everest, sponsors offered to pay for the return of thousands of empty oxygen bottles from the death zone. Magically, the place is much cleaner these days.

I am curious what the response would be if I offered a reward for every 'abandoned gear' boulder pad removed from Chaos Canyon, provided they were either trashed/recycled or usable pads sold to a gear reseller, with the proceeds (and possibly the cash reward) donated to one of the following (this would be a must):
- RMNP
- American Alpine Club
- Access Fund

I probably couldn't offer more than $10 or so a piece, but it would provide some minor incentive. Perhaps others would donate, too.

I'm sure this suggestion will prove controversial, but again, RMNP is a place dear to my heart and I don't see a cleanup (preferably supported by RMNP or the AAC or the Access Fund) as unreasonable if the conditions are as stated. Similar 'climber cleanups' are done in other national parks for old fixed line left on major routes (yes, there is a ton of old goldline on some routes).

Lastly, has anyone discussed this issue at length with the Access Fund, recently or in history? What is their stance?

How about RMNP climbing rangers?

I don't know for sure if anyone has talked to the Access Fund about stashing pads in wilderness areas. The rangers DO know of the practice, and it does not help access. From what I have heard through the grape vine (I don't remember the sources), stashing of pads, social trails, and trash at Chaos has been discussed in Ranger meetings. I don't know what has been decided, but it is clear that the impact at Chaos is not being overlooked and boulderers need to be careful.

I am very disappointed with the story from Haag and Chris. I have not been to Chaos this year, but I have seen many pads stashed in previous years. However, I have never seen a trashed pad or one still in the snow. I hate to hear stories like this.

If any boulderers read this, remember that some rangers also read these web boards. They know what is going on and are probably hoping that we police ourselves. Apparently this is starting to happen. If you want your pad, go up and get it. And start hiking it out every time.

EDIT:Corrected some typos.

It sounds like most people recognize that the photos below (taken at a Colorado alpine bouldering area) represent a serious problem to the climbing community as a whole.

The Access Fund has been contacted regarding the issue. Hopefully the climbing community as a whole can come together to help resolve the problem. More updates and info on ways to become involved will be posted later.

Cameron

Hey Pad-Bot leave the mattress at home LEARN TO SPOT.

How hard could it be John Gill did it in the 50s...

Cameron-
Thanks for posting the photos.
That is exactly what everyone taking the issue as a joke needs to see. If that does not help bring everyone together to keep it clean and excersise LNT ethics then I don't know what will. I do know that I will be packing stashies out everytime I come across one to do what I can to help keep these areas open. In an effort to maintain peace in the communinity I will gladly ship the stashed pad back to the owner. If found a second time I will have to turn it into a cozy bed for my dog :)

Cheers!

In the warriors way there is a section on not whining, and acting. So, what are some alternatives? Not accusing anyone of whining.

Would anyone be up for a some cleanup missions? Or would it be acceptable to do some landing zone cleanup? Manicured landing zones are a form of eyesore to some people, but I would imagine that those same folks would rather see that than pads in various states of disrepair.