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Big Thompson Canyon Ice
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??? 

WI4-5 M5-6

   
Type:  Trad, TR, Mixed, Ice, 1 pitch, 60'
Consensus: WI4-5 M5-6 [details]
FA: Buster Jesik
New Route: Yes
Season: Dec, Jan, Feb when wet and cold
Page Views: 2,200
Submitted By: allen simons on Jan 16, 2007

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (1)
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1/21/07.

Description 

Start at the base of Once in a Blue Moon, but climb up to the vertical section on the left. Climb up 30 feet of vertical thin and sometimes mixed ice to a ramp with a huge roof on it. A couple of bolts in the roof would make this a great hard mixed line.

Location 

Behind the concrete wall housing the Beige Siphon Tube on the south side of US Highway 34. It is the ice face on the right.

Protection 

Short screws, two bolt anchor above roof.

There are 4 bolts in the alcove/roof section and it is nice to have 2 stubby screws, a #0.5 Camalot/red Alien, a #0.75 Camalot, a pink tri-cam/yellow Alien, a #0.75/#1 Camalot, and various runners of different lengths.


Photos of ??? Slideshow Add Photo
Al on the Kling.
Al on the Kling.
Full on view.
Full on view.
The route in its entirety. Not a lot of ice left! ...
The route in its entirety. Not a lot of ice left! ...
Nice ice.
Nice ice.
The overhang.
The overhang.
Looking up the canyon past the ice.
Looking up the canyon past the ice.
Kyle on the Kling.
Kyle on the Kling.
Steve McCorkel roofing it.
Steve McCorkel roofing it.

Comments on ??? Add Comment
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Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Feb 13, 2007
By allen simons
Jan 18, 2007

My rope! I left it up there for 2 days after I placed some rap bolts off of the top (above the overhang with the little ice fangs). Kyle's Kling is the vertical ice on the left, WI 4-5, and once in a blue moon is the rampy section on the right. I have been on it 3 times last week. There is more ice in the canyon. Check west around the first corner and look high on the slabs. (multi pitch).
By Steve McCorkel
Jan 19, 2007

Has anyone led any part of the mixed overhang above?
By allen simons
Jan 19, 2007

Steve, Not that I know of. I put in a two chain anchor above it and looked at it. It may take some gear, or 2 bolts would probably protect the overhang well. I'm not a mixed climber, but if you need a belay, let me know. I would love to take pictures and watch.
Allen
By Buster Jesik
Jan 21, 2007

Allen-
HA! And I thought I got the FA of this little route. It was thinner today, I’d call it WI-4 M4 myself. I thought I had the FA because at the ledge below the big roof there was no anchor or sign of anyone else ever being there. You say you put 2 bolts above the roof? That doesn’t help out much if you lead the thing. And I ask, how do you get to that anchor to TR from? There is no obvious walk around, and I’d like to give the roof a shot if there is an anchor up there.
By allen simons
Jan 23, 2007

Buster. 50 or 60 feet east of the tube you can hike up and once at the top back west. The anchors are 30 feet below a big pine tree 15 feet back from the roof. (chains). I'm off Wed after 1300 and all day Friday if you want to look.
Allen
By Steve McCorkel
Jan 23, 2007

Hey All,
I toproped the right side of the roof (forms a short dihedral), and thought it was worthy of looking at again. To lead, I thought, along with some gear, it could use a bolt or two near the top. Due to the small sloping ledges on the right side, even a small whipper looks a bit nasty. I would be interested in checking this out again soon; sounds like a few of us would. Even the toprope was a lot of fun, with the thin ice over the lip, it's pretty cool.
By allen simons
Jan 25, 2007

OK, who knocked off one of the ice fangs at the overhang? Seriously, did anyone lead this yet?
By allen simons
Jan 28, 2007

Yes, I put the bolt there to make for a quick easy rap. Figured since there were other bare bolts sticking out, that it would be cool.
By Steve McCorkel
Jan 28, 2007

I tr'd the right side, the thin ice over the top was very thin and not really any help, except maybe out to the left; pretty much after pulling over the lip. As I said, I'm still interested in establishing this as a lead.
By Buster Jesik
Feb 8, 2007

I sent the roof today, placing the gear on lead except for the bolts on which I pre-placed the draws. When I learned that this route had been bolted, I decided to let the person who put in the work bolting it have the first chance to send. Today, I decided to go for it, because I believe that this route may only exist for another day or so. I assume that I bagged the FA. If anyone else did it before 2/8/07, please speak up. Also, I send my thanks to whomever bolted it and my apologies if I poached the FA.
By allen simons
Feb 9, 2007

Steve McCorkel bolted the route, and I supplied the gear. Not sure how I feel about someone taking the FA. Seems like the civil thing to do would be to ask the architech of the route. I don't think unclimbed routes should be there forever, but if someone takes the time to look at something, see the route, and bolt it, then it seems reasonable that they should get a reasonable amount of time to send it. I quit hunting in Colorado 25 years ago because a friend of mine shot a deer mortally wounding it and being forced to put in the time to track it. We spent the next four hours doing just that, but at the same time watching hunters in their trucks on the road below the ridge chase the same deer with their binoculars, rifles in hand driving the road hoping our hunt would run across the road in front of them. Taking a route is kind of the same thing. Like I said, it was known who bolted this route and the person should have been asked. Maybe I'll pull my bolts and you can put your own up.
By Buster Jesik
Feb 9, 2007

Wow, I am truly sorry that this is happening. Instead of pulling together and enjoying this rare gift of a route we are squabbling over nothing. Older, wiser climbers then myself told me that just because you bolt or FA a route doesn’t mean you own it. If you are putting up routes for yourself, then you should stop. Also, remember that I have been looking at this thing sense Jan 21st, when I lead the first 2/3 of it ground up, onsight, while you guys tr’d it and clamed a FA. I wasn’t going to watch it melt just so the “owner” could finish “killing his deer”. Also keep in mind that damaging rock and chopping bolts (even your own) permanently destroys an irreplaceable resource and reflects poorly on the climbing community, for which there is no excuse, no matter how bruised your ego is. I’d like to see the bolts stay. Even if it never forms again, it would be a fun drytooling/training route.
By Steve McCorkel
Feb 10, 2007

Aaron, Buster:

You’re welcome, I'm glad to have arranged some fun and excitement for a couple of ego-less, new-to-the-seen, but very knowledgeable climbers like yourselves. Just to know that you two enjoyed this is all very worthwhile. Keep up your good hard work.
By kyle kingrey
From: Loveland
Feb 10, 2007

Nice job to send the overhang. Regardless of all of the bs going on this was a great accomplishment. A hard, lengthy, overhanging mixed route in the BTC! This climb, from the discovery of it, the vision of the line, to the FA of the overhang, had many folks involved in a variety of ways. How long has it been since a BTC route has seen so much activity (and controversy?) We can only hope this climb comes in more often in the years to come. There are still a few hard lines to be had! Think of the possibilities if we worked together establishing lines vs. the path we all just went down.
By allen simons
Feb 10, 2007

Ok, here's the deal. I'll pull the "infrastructure bolt" and fill the hole with concrete patch. Hopefully, I won't have to ever hear about that again. As far as I am concerned, that is the only poor style thing I have done here. In my own defense, I have never done something like that before. I hope the climbing critics will forgive this mishap. Keep in mind that John Gill chipped a hold once.
As far as the rest, Aaron. I don't even know what to say to you. I supplied the bolts and the drill to Steve, and he figured out where the bolts should be and put them in. You know this is the case, you were there for part of it. I did drill the anchor days before. As a side note, he rapped to the bottom geared up and sent the entire thing placing gear as he went including tri-cams, cams, and bolt clips. To his frustration and mine as well, he could not manage the last move above the overhang. All I am saying about the F.A. is that Steve put in the effort to bolt it first and got there first. The courteous thing to do would be to ask him. Since he has not commented on this fiasco thus far, I don't know what his feelings are about it, but you know as well as I do that he asked you not to try the route initially. He may be OK with it, since he tried and didn't make it. If you can't respect the individual request, I don't know what to tell you. Don't know what to tell you about the deer hunting thing. Yes, a better first shot would have fixed the ordeal but that doesn't mean the other hunters should hunt like they did. We did finish the job before they got to, and they wasted a half a day waiting. I will continue to top rope any route I please. I saw this route form in the same time frame as everyone else. Perhaps, I dream too much, but I looked at this route hoping I had the skill. I do not. I scoped out the route on rappel and attempted to climb the ice section which seemed above my ability to lead for sure but even to top rope. For the record, I only tried this route once before the bolting and once immediately after Steve's attempt. A section chopped out on the first attempt. It's Ice, it breaks. I have watched the ice in the Big T for 16 years. There is some ice every year, but this year is a banner year. Disney Land is an example, it formed last year as well as this year. I have seen Peace Break about every other winter although usually thinner than this. All that being said Aaron, it is obvious that you and I won't ever climb together or be pals. We just have different opinions, and as you stated in your email to Kyle we are all entitled. You can rake my ethic all you want, but remember, you toproped off the anchors I drilled, and you climbed on the route that is most likely government or private property and you obviously justify it to yourself which in the end is what we all do at some level. I also am not going to comment to any more of your comments on this website. Your remarks to Kyle about me instead of face to face or addressed directly to me in an email were distasteful, arrogant and cowardice. It is best if we just climb and steer clear of each other. Buster, I will leave the other bolts (anchors), I won't pull what Steve put up. And I will add that it isn't that we claimed a first ascent, Kyle clearly posted that yours was the real first ascent, we just climbed it, posted it with a name so others could find it. If you have a different name for it, I will happily edit it in. For now I have posted it as Community Combat. Seems appropriate given the *%#@$%* above. I have no bruised ego except that I don't ice climb well. On that note, I'm going to post two new climbs.
By Buster Jesik
Feb 10, 2007

I don’t have a desire to name the route, climbing it was enough. You guys can decide that, just remove the “( got a name buster )” from it. Oh, and my last name is spelled Jesik, not Jesic. And about that last move, it is quite the surprise. You would think that its over once the roof is pulled, but that slab exit is tricky in crampons. I used a bizarre stemming mantle move to get over it. Once again, this is all new to me. I’ve never had such a negative reaction to anything I’ve done, especially a climb. In hindsight, I should have asked Aaron if he wanted it mentioned that he was involved. I speak for myself on this matter, and I’m sorry if any negative feelings were directed towards Aaron because of my lack of discretion. I don’t seek FA’s. In my almost 8 years of climbing this is only my second or third. Justifying my climbing a route is not a problem I’ve had before. I wish I was good enough to say that it really didn’t matter to me. If that where the case, I wouldn’t have so shamelessly sprayed about it. Aaron on the other hand, really didn’t care, and actually wanted me to have the first shot.

I also hope you others get out there and send this f*&%#$ before it melts!
By allen simons
Feb 10, 2007

And I'm happy someone sent it, too. I really do not want to detract from that. I really relaxed when Steve went past the lip thinking he had it........catch the fall was the next thing I did. I'll fix the spelling on your name.
By Steve McCorkel
Feb 10, 2007

Aaron and Buster:

In case it wasn't totally obvious, my prior statement was sarcastic (or sardonic). I don't think it was appropriate to attack Allen; there really was no reason. His response was not insulting (mine might have been). To an extent, I can handle the route snooping (wont affect me, also, the two of you can be ignored). The bolted rappel is nice, you must have used it at least once to rappel (it helps avoid further trespassing on the descent).

Everyone else:

There are two ways to pull over the lip move: first, is a bit to the right, m5-6; the second is straight over the bolt on the lip, m harder.

Today I climbed this route, placing all the gear as I climbed. First doing an easier sequence at the lip (a bit to the right). Then, I lowered and cleaned and led it again, this time directly over the bolt at the lip (the sequence I tried several days ago without success).

A #2 Camalot before the first bolt is possible, as well as a nice #3 Ballnut between bolts 2 and 3.

This route may be reasonably in through tomorrow or so?
By Steve McCorkel
Feb 12, 2007

All right, I think these guys should own up and give this route a nice name, post both first ascenders in the description, and put this fine route - that was enjoyed by more than a few – to a dignified rest; before we forget about it, and it fades away into obscurity. I can’t speak for all of those that climbed ice in the Big T this season, but, all in all, it was enjoyable for me. There was a reason I gave a route the name Peace Break. And, after thinking about it…I don’t want to fuel what seems to be more and more evident every day: a break in peace. (Plus, some very important parts of that climb -while climbing it- were breaking to pieces). -Steve
By allen simons
Feb 12, 2007

Steve, I'll be happy to put a real name to it. Buster didn't seem to want to name it. He got the official FA. Did you want Buster and Aaron as the FA's??
By Caelan
From: Dysfunctional, CO
Feb 13, 2007

For what it's worth, I too would like to see this route put to rest. I want to be very clear that I have no desire to argue anymore.

As for the FA, I honestly feel that I do not deserve to be included in the FA b/c I had a pre-placed cam on my ascent - that's just not good style. Either way, I don't want to fuel anything. So, if you put my name in, great. If you leave it out, great. If the majority feels that I should own up and participate in giving this a name, I think it would be nice to see this try to end on a positive, or neutral note with a name that includes a word along these lines:

"Apologies", "Arbitrate", "Ameliorate", "Truce", "Armistice", "Neutral Negotiation"

On the other hand, I would not be offended or mind if something along the lines of 'impatient' 'snaked', 'poached', 'fiasco' etc. were included.

As for the Character of the route, I'd suggest this word:
"Intubate" - I think the alcove looks like a mouth, and the ice was like drool coming down the chin from the siphon tube being stuck into it. Also, it felt like the ice was going to melt out any day, so I felt the need to climb it before it 'died'. Also, when you intubate someone, it can get ugly...

"Backwards", "Inverted" - b/c it goes ice then rock, not vice versa.

Other Words:
"Momentary Lapse of Judgement", "Transient", "In and Out", "Too Many Chiefs...", "Practice Roof" ??

'Intubate, Arbitrate, Ameliorate'? 'Impatient Intubation?' *shrug*
I'm sure that's way too much thought, but there's some food for it.

In the end, these are just suggestions and I would like to put this all to rest. Since Steve was involved w/ this, I thought something complimentary to "Peace Break" would be fitting (maybe "Armistice"?). Furthermore, I think it would be appropriate to let Steve have the final say, as he equipped the route, lead the route in the best style via placing all of his own gear, and also by doing the 'm-harder' exit. You could even put Steve's name under the FA if you all would like. I feel this is appropriate in that he and I discussed the protecting/bolting aspects, so in some way we worked together. Who is to say that he can not be included in the FA? Also, he is the only one to have lead the more direct line, so he could even be the only FA? I will leave these things up to Steve.

I have no further suggestions, and whatever is chosen/decided is fine by me.