Bolts next to cracks in the Wasatch

tony,

you take this way, way to seriously.

you come across the wrong way.

i never asked you for anything. ever. not ever.

i never did more than a little jabbing at your condescending, self righteous remarks.

i never ever threatened you.

if you had an attitude change so far as your posts are concerned, you might find that the world is a nicer, warmer more friendly place. you might find people coming to your side, wanting to be a part of the things you offer the community. you might find them on your side pretty often.

i hope you come across different in person than you do on the internet. then you will already know that i am speaking the truth.

PS - i apologize if i did ever call you any silly names.

hawkeye wrote: PS - i apologize if i did ever call you any silly names.

I don't, but it wouldn't matter if I did... nothing seems to get through to TC and reposting the Natural Line is evidence of that.

Going with the subject, there are many circumstances where a bolt next to a crack can happen; however, though generally not wanted, is it really the end of the world? And who's got the kauna's to officially say what distance is too close? 1'? 5'? 10'? The scariest thing I see though is the references by certain people that they are willing to just cut the bolt, and not have the balls to talk about it publicly. And whoever said if you are expecting a bolt and you get there and its not there... to suck it up... you are about as bad as... I'm not even saying, because no ones life is worth sucking it up when it comes to protection that should be there and isn't because someone thought they new better, or that their opinion of how a route should be is more important! The FA team on any route is going to make mistakes, but its easier to look back on something and criticize, but its just plain dangerous to rip out something that other people are depending on being there!

Tony Calderone wrote: I know two people who personally volunteered to die for you. One volunteered to die for your soul. The other volunteered to die for your freedom. When you recognize who those people are they will speak to you. But don't expect them to say another word to you until then.

HUH? is this some sorta god and country thing? Is king george dubya posting on this site now?

Tony Calderone wrote: One volunteered to die for your soul. The other volunteered to die for your freedom. When you recognize who those people are they will speak to you. But don't expect them to say another word to you until then.

er?......WTF? (scratching head...wondering if I missed something)

Tea wrote: er?......WTF? (scratching head...wondering if I missed something)

He's obviously a GOD fearing, flag waving, freedom loving american. Not like you two pinko commie liberals.

Jesus kissed you ?! Man, that's sweet !

Sorry...

classic. I see your method now. You're using Jesus' method of teaching the masses with mysterious parables. Maybe if I'd been reading all of your posts with this in mind I'd have seen the light long, long ago.

Imagine my surprise when I came home from work ready to read up on the latest news about bolts next to cracks in the Wasatch and instead saw posts about kissing the Lord. Where did that come from?

Tony, most intelligent folks would have done the same with regards to using the tree as a back up. Good story, glad you made the right choice there.

I was wandering around Storm Mountain the other day, and I checked out Resevoir Ridge for the first time. The two chain anchors, 15' up from the base are a fine example of bolts that need to go, IMO.

This is an awful example, especially in an educational setting. There is good gear around this placement, and it is no where near hard or high enough to justify its length. There are also two bolts very close together at the base of the crag right next to a 2-2.5" crack. The bolts are about 4 inches apart. This is all super visible to the general public and the paint has worn off of the chains, as well. I imagine that this has something to do with a current U of U instructional regime, but the old rock drop belay test could be easily set-up from natural anchors in the same location, from a higher anchor, in a gym, or on the inside or outside of one the many concrete structures on campus.




Whereas the Cranial bolt is probably good for the relatively unexperienced leader, this configuration has been set up by those with enough experience to know better.

John Rogers wrote:this was where Harold Goodro used to do all his skills for the rock 1 class while he was still alive. There used to be two 1/4" buttonhead anchors in the same location, so as modern gear has evolved, so has this anchor. The chain is not needed, it is just overkill. Tony is teaching rock 1, but no longer climbs, is combative,and very closed minded. If I may make a suggestion: just leave this alone, or talk to tony about alternitives.

Chop! Chop! Chop! er... I mean, Remove and patch! Remove and patch! Remove and patch!

If for no other reason than to get someone who is combative and closed minded riled up. :)

How come no one taught me how to fall??? (Does it really need to be taught?? I think gravity is pretty straight forward...)

Jonathan:

Those bolts have been used by the University of Utah for at least 25 years. When I worked for them in the early eighties, they were there. This was under the direction of Harold Goodro. The bolts were used for fall practice. As Harold would encourage, a student would climb up to the bolts. The belayer would pay out 4 feet of slack and the reluctant, quavering student would jump off! Part of the class would also go over to a nearby tree and catch a 50 pound cement block, using a hip belay. I was sooo glad I never had to catch that thing. Students would come back the next week with big bruises. This was all in the beautiful setting of the Storm Mt. area. The students became dang good belayers.

These bolts serve a very useful purpose. Year in and year out they have been used in the beginning class. They are hidden from the tourists, and are close to the ground so the student and instructor can easily communicate. I think it would be sad if they were removed, they just need to be painted.

Interesting posts. If those chains are being used by classes I say just leave them. That could be taught in a gym, but at the expense of money whereas climbing is already a costly investment. That area if I am not mistaken, has a great deal of class type teaching going on, like Six Appeal being an intro to outside rock for newbies. If they are being used, leave the chains. If not, I'm sure Choppy would love to add another extermination to his list?

WTF? Jesus now communicating through data instead of prayer, and now Satan through data instead of Devilish Chanting??? I must say i don't believe in either of you, but the greatest trick the devil ever played was to convince the world he didn't exist. I'm still not going to church Satan, and Jesus, where is your South Park pic? Come on, we know who won that boxing match!

I had to do the bucket catch for Goodros class many years ago.. I had the rope running wrong, and now only have one testicle and a still carry the scar..And I h'aint never dropped nobody! HA!

Boissal wrote:Jesus kissed you ?! Man, that's sweet ! Sorry...

? what'd I miss?

tim f wrote:Imagine my surprise when I came home from work ready to read up on the latest news about bolts next to cracks in the Wasatch and instead saw posts about kissing the Lord. Where did that come from?

???

JesusH.Christ wrote:Tony Calderone, This is Jesus speaking. Well not really speaking, just posting. You have edited your post about us kissing. Why have you forsaken me? You will deny me three times before the cock crows.

Damn what'd i miss? Kissing?

AMEN...

No, I don't have to support "our" troops.

I agree with bsmoot about the bolts at Reservoir Ridge. They have been there a long time. When I bolted those routes to the right on the same wall, I considered briefly removing them as I didn't realize what purpose they served. I have heard from many people, however, who appreciate that they are there. Somebody paint them...as long as they are in, they should be left alone.