TR Ethics

I would like to request that parties not camp-out and top rope classic climbs (see also: Bobby Hanson's legitimate comments regarding City of Rocks top roping), and to defer to those who want to LEAD a climb. I was recently in Rock Canyon and as I was heading to Green Monster Crack we ran into a party of four at the area that was intent on hanging out on the crack for the afternoon. I understand that this is a great canyon for TR climbs but I believe that we have to be respectful to all parties that also want to share the rock, and I just feel that there is a lack of consideration regarding this issue. What does the community think?, and if it is a reasonable concern, how do we spread the word (with respect) to those who are violating this unwritten code of ethic?

It is easy to get excited on the approach to a classic lead climb. What a letdown it is to discover that the route you were hoping to climb is busy. Standing in line doesn't work well for me, I just get impatient. The strategy that works well for me is to be friendly. First, ask those climbing if they're enjoying the climbing. Find out more about their favorite climbs and experience. After they feel comfortable talking with you, ask if you can climb (they already know that's why you came). Let them know that you would like to lead climb and tell them how long you plan to take. Offer to set up their top rope for them when you're finished.
About the unwritten code of ethics regarding sharing the rock...I think that top ropers have a hard time believing that lead climbers have the right-of-way on the rock. I also think that top ropers don't realize that parking their rope on the rock is like blocking your neighbor's driveway. In my opinion, the solution is to focus on the sense of community (friendship, respect, cooperation).

I find it hard to swallow that top ropers should "defer" to lead climbers. First come first serve is the way it goes.

Top ropers who camp out however, are not being considerate. If a rope is just hanging and not being used, the TRs should let someone else on the climb. I have even seen climbs with a TR set up and no one in sight. Totally uncool.

Our activity is getting more and more popular. We must be friendly and civil. But I think it is best to head to the crag with more than one objective. That way you won't be disappopinted when your primary objective is occupied.

I have also found the best way to get on the route first is to head up right at sunrise. Most climbers sleep in.

How about when you get to an area, and Exum Guides got there ahead of you. There are 4 TR's set up, the area is cordoned off, and nobody is climbing, but if you ask, you usually get an indignant response.

"Cordoned off?"

I'm with the mindset to defer to the lead climber and pull the TR and let them lead, even if I am the first one there; most of the time, they will just have their second trail the TR back up to the anchor for me.

bottom line is -should of got there 1st

if you are on the route, it's yours.
it doesn't matter if your toproping, leading, whatever

i don't believe in occupying a route for an entire day, but it is definitely first come-first served....

Say some friends & I go to climb a classic 1 pitch splitter, we get there early, lead it/or walk up, set up an anchor, we all get a lap on it, then someone else comes along wants to lead it, what's the big deal with pulling the rope and asking their second to trail it and set it up again? Chances are we have already been worked over and could use a rest anyway.

The same ethic should also go for an aid vs free climb, if someone plans to aid a line but a free climber can send it, why not let the free climber through, especially on a wall?

As one who regularly brings groups out climbing, I'm all about getting there first. I'm also about sharing my rope with someone who is cordial. So long as you're not a jerk about it, I'll gladly let you take a lap on my cord or I'll pull it to the side if there is a break in the action for you to lead the route.
Rather than get all frustrated, just ask nicely what the TR groups' plan is and if there is a way you could fit into it. No one really wants to look like a jackass in front of their friends or clients.

Mark,

In your (quite realistic) scenerio, your party got there first and climbed first. You are ready for a break. So you are not really deferring to the climber that wants to lead the route.

What if your party got there first, set up a TR, was ready to do a lap, and a party shows up to lead? Must you pull your TR so they can lead? I don't think you should: you were there first.

Adam Catalano wrote:As one who regularly brings groups out climbing, I'm all about getting there first. I'm also about sharing my rope with someone who is cordial. So long as you're not a jerk about it, I'll gladly let you take a lap on my cord or I'll pull it to the side if there is a break in the action for you to lead the route. Rather than get all frustrated, just ask nicely what the TR groups' plan is and if there is a way you could fit into it. No one really wants to look like a jackass in front of their friends or clients.

Totally agree, Adam. I was at The Magic Bus in Red Rock Canyon on Sunday. There was a group of seven leading and toproping when my partner and I arrived. We waited a while and asked the leader of the group what their plans were and which routes might be freeing up. They pulled their toprope anchor on one of the routes and I led it. A short time later another group of seven or eight arrived. The leader of the first group pulled another rope so we all could share the crag.

Cooperation and friendliness go a long way toward everyone having a good time.

I'll agree with you Lee, I think that in the situation you provided, the new party should let everyone at least get a lap in (I think that's also the situation Ron describes also - where he waits to work in).

I was thinking more along the lines of taking the route (a great/classic route) for the entire day just so others can't lead it.

As Ron and others have stated, cooperation has worked out the best for me when working a line/problem on TR.

Nathan Fisher wrote:How about when you get to an area, and Exum Guides got there ahead of you. There are 4 TR's set up, the area is cordoned off, and nobody is climbing, but if you ask, you usually get an indignant response.

Nathan I want to hear this story! Or is this just hypothetical?

That is a combination of two times. One time I was at Reservoir Ridge, and there were top-ropes set up, and nobody was climbing. I asked what was going on and an older man (Exum Guide) says that they've got the area. I say no-one is climbing, and then he says, well... if you want to climb quickly go ahead.

The other time was at Dogwood, all the right side anchors had ropes draped down them, and there were pylons with rope around them. And a manly looking lady standing with her arms crossed guarding the area. No-one was climbing or even there but her. I was in a hurry down the canyon, late for something, otherwise I would have stopped to climb to make a point.

Yeah, cooperation among all parties is nice, unfortunately it doesn't always work that way. Seems like I was never destined to climb Deck Chairs on the Titanic at North Table Mountain in Golden, Colorado.

Attempt #1 - got there to find the leader just topping out and lowering off. Decided to wait. Just as the second climber was lowering off, up the trail comes three other people who are warmly greeted by the two climbers and join the conga line. For some reason the first two climbers neglected to tell us about their friends. We split.

Attempt #2 - got there to find nobody on the climb but there was a young lady sitting at the base. I ask her what's up; it turns out her friend is hiking around to the top of the climb to put a top rope on it. We split.

Attempt #3 - get there to find the leader has already led the route and the second is just starting out. Things are looking good. The second tried to get off the ground for 15 minutes and just can't seem to make it. We decide to split and come back. We come back 1/2 hour later and the second has bypassed the opening moves by coming around from the right and is now struggling with the next set of hard moves about 20 feet up. We decide to split and come back. We come back 1/2 hour later and the second has bypassed the second set of hard moves and is now working on the upper crux. We decide to split and come back. Now for the capper!!!!! By the time we get back to the climb it is just about pitch black and there is the second, still working on the upper crux, but now wearing a headlamp.

Attempt #4 - nobody on route. We climb it!!!!

Your mileage may vary!

Bruce

I appreciate the positive contributions on this thread and would like to interject with an optimistic update. While climbing at the City early last week we encountered a top rope party on Private Idaho and all along the West side of Bath Rock. A very considerate Teacher and group leader named Mike, from Realms of Inquiry private school, pulled the rope and allowed us to use it to lead the route. He had a great attitude and we had a great time while there. Thanks again for the community input!

That is refreshing. Thanks for sharing, Tobin. :)

Nathan Fisher wrote:That is a combination of two times. One time I was at Reservoir Ridge, and there were top-ropes set up, and nobody was climbing. I asked what was going on and an older man (Exum Guide) says that they've got the area. I say no-one is climbing, and then he says, well... if you want to climb quickly go ahead. The other time was at Dogwood, all the right side anchors had ropes draped down them, and there were pylons with rope around them. And a manly looking lady standing with her arms crossed guarding the area. No-one was climbing or even there but her. I was in a hurry down the canyon, late for something, otherwise I would have stopped to climb to make a point.

Nate, were you certain that both people you encountered were from Exum? We are typically very generous and diplomatic if we have ropes hung in an area. We are also willing to work with people if they want to climb as well. Remember that we are apart of this community too and we have no interest in upsetting other people in it. Please direct any complaints to Exum Utah Mountain Guides: 801 550 3986 or the Forest Service (801) 466-6411

Jason,
First encounter (older gentleman) defintely exum. Second, unknown. Just assumed.