Turkey Rocks, CO: Belay error causes near-death accident
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Climber A, B, and C (myself) arrive at Turkey Rocks on Sun 9/25. Climber A expresses interest in leading a 10d, but we start on "Gobbler's Gulch", a 3-pitch 5.9 as all of us understand that climber B (intermediate beginner) wouldn't enjoy a 10d. |
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Any way you can post a picture of this setup? I'm having trouble visualizing it from your description, and I think it would be very informational. Glad to hear you are realtively ok and not realy dead. |
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Wayne |
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I can't figure out if this really happened, or if this is a scenario.... |
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Congrats on not being dead. I hope the recovery goes quickly. Did climber A have a conscious reason for adding a second quickdraw in a different configuration? Besides the more the merrier? (that to me always implied more in the same place, but that's just me) I'm amazed how many people I meet that lose their situational awareness when they're stressed - I teach how to use the ATC Guide a bunch, and it just goes to show that practice, practice, practice as well as truly understanding how the device works are paramount. Thanks for posting this, difficult though it may be. |
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Id suggest changing the title, unless you actually died and cant do so. Pretty misleading. |
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csproul wrote:Any way you can post a picture of this setup? I'm having trouble visualizing it from your description, and I think it would be very informational. Glad to hear you are realtively ok and not realy dead.The best I can interperate from the description is once the belayer clipped the 2nd draw into the wire loop and took it to a higher point on the anchor it rotated the ATC so that the two rope slots were facing down which in turn takes the weight off the anchor point of the ATC not allowing it to rotate and jam the ropes together. This set up would negate the auto-blocking system and the belayer would be holding their climbers weight in their hands with no "locking" of the brake hand available in an easy way. Auto blocking belay devices are designed to hang from the loop at the top of the "Pigs Nose" so it seems weird to take a draw from the anchor to the wire loop. Trying to back it up possibly? Regardless of skill level everyone has off days; but an experienced climber should have been able to recognize then remedy this situation. Also glad to hear you're not actually dead though. Here ya go... blackdiamondequipment.com/e… |
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Did climber A have ropeburns? |
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I can picture the incorrect setup perfectly. |
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This is pretty interesting for sure. It is hard to believe that an "experienced climber" would use a QD for any anchor purposes. Seems like they would just use lockers instead, especially for belaying off of the anchor with 2 seconds. I guess this is just a classic example of the ATC guide being used in the wrong way because of the direction of pull. |
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I am surprised to here that he decided to hang on an easy route when he is part of a simul belay. Doesn't excuse the belayer, but generally you shouldn't be taking "takes" on easy climbs where you are simul climbing/belaying. |
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i'm with amidon. |
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Very disturbing. I'm so glad you are alive and intact to tell this. Thank you for describing in detail exactly what happened. This is the sort of post that is useful to us all. Using a quickdraw definitely seems like not the way to go ever in that sort of scenario. I'm guessing your climbing partner list is minus one at this point. I bet you appreciate every day a little more since the incident, I know I would be! Have you healed up now? This is making me think about my helmet too. Thanks for sharing and glad you're ok... that was an intense read. |
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I am surprised this is the first time climber A has dropped anyone. People should not be belaying if they don't understand the simple mechanics of the device. |
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The Darkness wrote:I am surprised to here that he decided to hang on an easy route when he is part of a simul belay. Doesn't excuse the belayer, but generally you shouldn't be taking "takes" on easy climbs where you are simul climbing/belaying.Don't forget not everyone is at your elite level of climbing... Besides, what is described here isn't simul-climbing. |
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Can someone post a picture of this rigging? |
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This must be Climber B's take on it Krista wrote:TJ, I think I have to take mild offense to that - I'm one of those climbers who, on a very tough climb, will repeatedly yell TAKE or UP ROPE to a belayer who may not be as attentive as I like. Let me give you an example of why: Last Sunday I was following the lead up a climb at Turkey Rocks. Being from the softly rated (by comparison) SoCal and now living in Denver, these climbs are ass-kickers. Cleaning the very well placed gear sapped some of my strength, so I had to rest on the rope periodically (hence hollering TAKE). The third member of our party started simulcliming [sic] when I was about halfway up, and being a much better climber than I he was closing the gap. He opted to stop while I worked on retrieving a particularly difficult piece of pro, but he didn't communicate with the belayer. At all. Just opted to rest on the rope without saying anything. He started falling, and by the time the belayer (from top) realized it, momentum had built up enough to cause the rope to burn through her gloves to her hands. He fell 30 feet and Decked. Long story short, he had a concussion, scraped up his face badly, injured his upper back & upper glutes which took the brunt of the impact along with his cracked helmet. He just as easily could have been dead. So explain to me why someone yelling TAKE bothers you so much.... would you prefer they experience near death? I'd rather come across as paranoid & slightly annoying than be dead. But that's just me.I didn't realize what was happening in Krista's account till I read yours. I understand what happened now. It wasn't so much that you had miscommunicated that you wanted to hang on the rope as much as Climber A failed to mention to you that she didn't know how to properly use her belay device. I'm glad you're still alive! Any chance you wanna name Climber A as a public service announcement? DeadManBarelyWalking wrote:The next time I'm reasonably mentally aware, I'm standing facing the rap slings that I'm tied into on the first belay ledge. Climber A is rapelling off the blue rope from a rap anchor on the second belay ledge. Climber B is standing 20 feet in front of me and unties herself from the white rope. I ask: "What happened?". She explains that I fell and completely passed out for about 30 seconds. After this, I started to reply reasonably understandably to (possibly embarassing) questions. I had no memory of this, so I'd had a 20 minute memory lapse. We rapped off and went home without further incidents.I have a friend that went to rap a 60m rope on The Armadillo, flubbed clipping in and fell the entire 200 feet. For the whole walkout and a bit afterwards, he was completely disoriented and thought that he had led an large group of kids out there and they had abandoned him and his girlfriend. It was scary. He made a complete recovery. He's guided rafting, ski patrolled and climbed quite a bit since the accident years ago. --Marc |
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I think this incident is spread out over 2-3 threads; if nobody wants to show the rigging problem, this discussion serves little for climbers to get the idea and correct the mistake that caused the problem of decking a seconding climber. |
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Buff Johnson wrote:..this discussion serves little for climbers to get the idea and correct the mistake that caused the problem of decking a seconding climber.There's no need to provide pictures if you own a Reverso or ATC Guide; know how to set it up to belay a second (and possibly third) in auto-lock mode; and know how to give slack to your second (and third). Climber A set up her ATC Guide in auto-lock mode and then defeated the auto-lock mode with a quickdraw. It almost cost a man his life. Lesson: If you own a belay device with an auto-lock mode and you use that feature incorrectly, you're putting your partners' lives in danger. --Marc |
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Just goes to show that *climbing* skill and/or *just* years of experience doesn't necessarily mean D!CK when it comes to technical skill. Clearly climber A hadn't a clue regarding the operational principles of an ATC Guide. In my experience, understanding the principles of a given system is MUCH more important than memorizing steps or techniques. Such understanding prevents foolish errors and allows for improvisation when the situation deviates from "normal." |
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Kevin Craig wrote:Just goes to show that *climbing* skill and/or *just* years of experience doesn't necessarily mean D!CK when it comes to technical skill.True dat! |