Experience with C4 Extreme supplement????

I came across a supplement (c4 extreme) that increases endurance, decreases pump, and doesnt make you gain unnescesary weight.

The question is...Has anyone tried this supplement? From a climbers perspective, i dont really like the whole supplement thing but this one sounds like an incredible tool that could help me push my limits when training.

Creatine. And obviously 10 times better than any one else's product.

From the manufacturer's (Cellucor) web site: "Creatine Nitrate is 1000% more water soluble than either Creatine Monohydrate or other creatine derivatives."

Go for it, just be smart. Like anything with creatine, drink plenty of water. Most creatines work by fully hydrating your muscle fibers in order to allow nutrients and protein to saturate the muscle while letting lactic acid flow out. The big reason you need to hydrate properly is because eventually everything you put in your body goes through your kidneys, the excess creatine in your system isn't really good for your kidneys.....I'm not saying you're going to go into renal failure, but it can cause some lower back/flank pain. So long story short you will typically put on some water weight, but that should be more than offset by the strength gains you will see.....and drink at least a gallon of water daily.

One expert climber/training authority wrote suggesting to limit Creatine to 5 grams per day (on days that you use it), and taking it only during intense workouts.

I've heard less-expert sources say that there's no problem getting that much Creatine just from a normal healthy diet (? non-vegetarian ?).

If that were true, then perhaps the idea is to make it maximally available during a workout.
. (and I might wonder if ingesting it during a workout might have a "mental" effect, even if the new extra does not all get transported to the specific active muscle sites. That is, if the unconscious neuro-chemical control system detects extra Creatine available in the bloodstream, it might permit the specific muscles to perform closer to their physical limit).

Ken

Look, there is a ton of SCIENTIFIC info on creatine. Double blind controlled studies, etc. Much better to be reading those than what you're going to get by posting here.

I suggest you start here:

pages.uoregon.edu/mdillon1/…

and then click the links at the bottom of that page to read the all the additional detailed pages.

Your body can produce about 1-2g/day on its own (synthesizing it from amino acids). As for getting it from diet, meats are the richest source, but you'd need to eat 2 lb of meat to get 5g. Good luck with that, I'm sure your colon will be stoked.

Counterintuitively, using creating during your hypertrophy phases may be counterproductive. There is not a perfect understanding of what biologically causes hypertrophy. We know methods of how to achieve it, but not the granular level mechanisms behind it. One theory, and I stress this is a theory, is called the ATP Deficit theory. The nickel version is that the muscles being worked running out of ATP creates a signaling for more protein synthesis.

Using creatine aids in regenerating ATP. This would likely decrease the "ATP deficit" from a given exercise/effort. Of course, you could just extend the time or intensity to achieve the same deficit. But it is something to be aware of.

The primary mechanism of how it works is that it increases storage of intramuscular phospho-creatine, typically around 5-15% above baseline levels. This extra stored phospho-creatine helps regenerate ATP in the creatine-kinase reaction, creating the "fuel" you are using in power efforts.

You WILL gain weight, basically water retention. Typically around 3-5lb for an avg adult male. Loading phases work, and non-loading protocols also work but take slightly longer to establish higher intramuscular levels.

Finally, ignore all the hype about forms...nitrate vs. monohydrate vs. ethyl ester etc. Plain-jane monohydrate has the scientific backing.

Will - Thanks a lot for correcting my misunderstandings, and filling in some very helpful details which it would have been tricky to dig out from reading lots of studies.

Thanks guys and gals for the info! Happy sending to you all! =)

I kept getting painful muscle cramps. Not worth it for me.
The worst was when one segment of the abdominal rectus muscle would cramp and you'd just hope it wouldn't set off the rest of the muscle, because that would really hurt.
I was trying on shoes at Neptunes once and got a cramp in my foot and had to lay down on the floor for a while (with the staff guy helping me out looking on in mild disbelief) before asking for the next size up.
I stayed plenty hydrated, it's just a side effect of creatine.

YMMV.

Dana wrote: This is the abstract of a review article, 2012, Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition. Just glanced through it, but it seems to cover all the important questions. If anyone wants a full text, just let me know.