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Experience with C4 Extreme supplement????
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By Xzavier Thompson
From smyrna,TN
Dec 26, 2012
I came across a supplement (c4 extreme) that increases endurance, decreases pump, and doesnt make you gain unnescesary weight.

The question is...Has anyone tried this supplement? From a climbers perspective, i dont really like the whole supplement thing but this one sounds like an incredible tool that could help me push my limits when training.

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By Frank F
From Bend, OR
Dec 26, 2012
Creatine. And obviously 10 times better than any one else's product.

From the manufacturer's (Cellucor) web site: "Creatine Nitrate is 1000% more water soluble than either Creatine Monohydrate or other creatine derivatives."

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By ze_dirtbag
From TBD
Dec 26, 2012
cottonmouth
Go for it, just be smart. Like anything with creatine, drink plenty of water. Most creatines work by fully hydrating your muscle fibers in order to allow nutrients and protein to saturate the muscle while letting lactic acid flow out. The big reason you need to hydrate properly is because eventually everything you put in your body goes through your kidneys, the excess creatine in your system isn't really good for your kidneys.....I'm not saying you're going to go into renal failure, but it can cause some lower back/flank pain. So long story short you will typically put on some water weight, but that should be more than offset by the strength gains you will see.....and drink at least a gallon of water daily.

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By Dana Bartlett
From CT
Dec 27, 2012
There's lots of information about creatine on PubMed. You should be able to find enough data to decide if you want to use it or not. If you want any specific articles, let me know; I have access to a medical school library.

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By kenr
Dec 27, 2012
One expert climber/training authority wrote suggesting to limit Creatine to 5 grams per day (on days that you use it), and taking it only during intense workouts.

I've heard less-expert sources say that there's no problem getting that much Creatine just from a normal healthy diet (? non-vegetarian ?).

If that were true, then perhaps the idea is to make it maximally available during a workout.
. (and I might wonder if ingesting it during a workout might have a "mental" effect, even if the new extra does not all get transported to the specific active muscle sites. That is, if the unconscious neuro-chemical control system detects extra Creatine available in the bloodstream, it might permit the specific muscles to perform closer to their physical limit).

Ken

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By Will S
From Joshua Tree
Dec 27, 2012
Look, there is a ton of SCIENTIFIC info on creatine. Double blind controlled studies, etc. Much better to be reading those than what you're going to get by posting here.

I suggest you start here:

pages.uoregon.edu/mdillon1/Wha...

and then click the links at the bottom of that page to read the all the additional detailed pages.

Your body can produce about 1-2g/day on its own (synthesizing it from amino acids). As for getting it from diet, meats are the richest source, but you'd need to eat 2 lb of meat to get 5g. Good luck with that, I'm sure your colon will be stoked.

Counterintuitively, using creating during your hypertrophy phases may be counterproductive. There is not a perfect understanding of what biologically causes hypertrophy. We know methods of how to achieve it, but not the granular level mechanisms behind it. One theory, and I stress this is a theory, is called the ATP Deficit theory. The nickel version is that the muscles being worked running out of ATP creates a signaling for more protein synthesis.

Using creatine aids in regenerating ATP. This would likely decrease the "ATP deficit" from a given exercise/effort. Of course, you could just extend the time or intensity to achieve the same deficit. But it is something to be aware of.

The primary mechanism of how it works is that it increases storage of intramuscular phospho-creatine, typically around 5-15% above baseline levels. This extra stored phospho-creatine helps regenerate ATP in the creatine-kinase reaction, creating the "fuel" you are using in power efforts.

You WILL gain weight, basically water retention. Typically around 3-5lb for an avg adult male. Loading phases work, and non-loading protocols also work but take slightly longer to establish higher intramuscular levels.

Finally, ignore all the hype about forms...nitrate vs. monohydrate vs. ethyl ester etc. Plain-jane monohydrate has the scientific backing.

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By kenr
Dec 27, 2012
Will - Thanks a lot for correcting my misunderstandings, and filling in some very helpful details which it would have been tricky to dig out from reading lots of studies.

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By Xzavier Thompson
From smyrna,TN
Dec 27, 2012
Thanks guys and gals for the info! Happy sending to you all! =)

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By Mark E Dixon
From Sprezzatura, Someday
Dec 29, 2012
At the BRC
I kept getting painful muscle cramps. Not worth it for me.
The worst was when one segment of the abdominal rectus muscle would cramp and you'd just hope it wouldn't set off the rest of the muscle, because that would really hurt.
I was trying on shoes at Neptunes once and got a cramp in my foot and had to lay down on the floor for a while (with the staff guy helping me out looking on in mild disbelief) before asking for the next size up.
I stayed plenty hydrated, it's just a side effect of creatine.

YMMV.

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By Dana Bartlett
From CT
Dec 29, 2012
Creatine is one of the most popular and widely researched natural supplements. The majority of studies have focused on the effects of creatine monohydrate on performance and health; however, many other forms of creatine exist and are commercially available in the sports nutrition/supplement market. Regardless of the form, supplementation with creatine has regularly shown to increase strength, fat free mass, and muscle morphology with concurrent heavy resistance training more than resistance training alone. Creatine may be of benefit in other modes of exercise such as high-intensity sprints or endurance training. However, it appears that the effects of creatine diminish as the length of time spent exercising increases. Even though not all individuals respond similarly to creatine supplementation, it is generally accepted that its supplementation increases creatine storage and promotes a faster regeneration of adenosine triphosphate between high intensity exercises. These improved outcomes will increase performance and promote greater training adaptations. More recent research suggests that creatine supplementation in amounts of 0.1 g/kg of body weight combined with resistance training improves training adaptations at a cellular and sub-cellular level. Finally, although presently ingesting creatine as an oral supplement is considered safe and ethical, the perception of safety cannot be guaranteed, especially when administered for long period of time to different populations (athletes, sedentary, patient, active, young or elderly).

This is the abstract of a review article, 2012, Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition. Just glanced through it, but it seems to cover all the important questions. If anyone wants a full text, just let me know.

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By koreo
From Denver, CO
Dec 30, 2012
sloping <br />
Dana wrote:
This is the abstract of a review article, 2012, Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition. Just glanced through it, but it seems to cover all the important questions. If anyone wants a full text, just let me know.


I'd like to see the article

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