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Member Since: Jul 7, 2005
Last Visit: 12 hours ago
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Point Rank: # 977
Total Points: 686
Last Year: 133
Last 30 Days: 64
53 Compliments
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Areas = 15
Routes = 10
Photos = 5
Page Improvements = 3
Comments = 1



Where has KCP been climbing?










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All 2145 | Routes 7 | Areas | Photos 71 | Page Improvements | Comments 261 | Posts 1466 | Stars 192 | Ratings 148
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Contributed Comments

 

Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 7, 2007

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Comments: Thanks for the post, Steve. You are a reasonable guy, and I always appreciate your input.

My attempt at spreading a little lightheartedness among the crowd was not meant to dismiss the issue of what Dean did. Dean's exploit is already indelibly etched in the minds of most climbers. The media and these forums have helped to insure that.

It's not that the topic of access, as it relates to causing problems for fellow climbers, is trivial to me. My problem is that the general tone of consistent De... more >>


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 7, 2007

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Comments: The point wasn't drivel, Pete, even if it was lost on you. Wow! I feel like a paper cut in a room full of alcohol swabs. Do some of you even know how to laugh at yourselves?


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 6, 2007

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Comments: Brad,

Selective hearing seems to be a recurring theme in this whine fest. You should take a clue from Kirra, who had no problem recognizing how thoroughly I elaborated on my position. If you haven't gotten it by know, I am sorry to say that you just aren't that bright. Or maybe you do get it, but feel compelled to spend twenty more pages crying about it because you enjoy our company so much. Do you bitch about the guy who cut you off in traffic, nine months later? Are you still whining about th... more >>


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 6, 2007

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Comments: You guys are priceless.

Click here for directions to Climber's World:
i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/...


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 4, 2007

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Comments: ""This thread feels like a reflection of our society.
The entire debate hinges on one issue."

This may be best explained by something said once by Steven Reiss, the Dept head of teh school of Psychology at OSU. To Paraphrase:
'When two sides argue and argue it is rarely the facts of the matter that are being debated, but the weight or validity of the fundimental values and motivations behind each point.'"


Mr. Reiss was a bright guy for saying it, and you, Tony, are equally bright for... more >>


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 3, 2007

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Comments: "There is a difference between an error in social judgement, and an obvious professional judgement error that results in restrictions for a large number of people. If I were to make a professional judgement error in my work that had serious consequences for others in my profession, even if it was not technically illegal, I would at best be fired and at worst sued. Professionals can and should be held to a higher standard of judgement and conduct than others."

So exactly what are you su... more >>


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 3, 2007

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Comments: By your position, Slim, all I can say is: Don't ever make an error in social judgment or we'll be gunning for you. You'd better stay on your game.


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 3, 2007

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Comments: No problem, Brad. If things are sounding a little black and white so far, I'll add some color for you.

Here is a May 18, 2006 official statement from patagonia:

"Thursday, May 18, 2006
Patagonia's Stance on Dean Potter

Patagonia it seems is standing by Dean Potter for climbing Delicate Arch.Many individuals have asked us where we, as a company, stand on Dean's recent climb. Since last week, Patagonia has received hundreds of emails on the issue, many asking for a public stance. First of ... more >>


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 2, 2007

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Comments: "How do you know why other people think and feel the way they do?"

Hmmm. Because they have posted it numerous times. For a minute there, I thought it was a trick question.

"Telling other people what motivates them is not a good strategy for making points in debates."

You mean like assuming that I am motivated by winning debate points?

All sarcasm aside, Ron, I am not here to win debate points. My intention has been to express an alternate viewpoint and then to leave it up... more >>


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 2, 2007

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Comments: "Interesting thoughts and certainly philisophically fair, however...

Does that mean that everyone who smokes pot and thinks it should be legal to do so should go do it on the police station's front steps? If EVERYONE did, it would probably work. But if just a few did, they'd end up with fines and court costs- and possibly jail. And the cops would probably tighten enforecment.

I'm not saying I have answers to things, I'm just saying its hard to be philosophically 'pure.'"


Not philosop... more >>


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 2, 2007

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Comments: Here is the situation in a nutshell. I am not going to sugarcoat it, because doing so will serve no one.

Dean's ascent was not illegal at the time in which he did it. You are mad at him, not because he broke any law, but because he inadvertently exposed a system that didn't work and that, if corrected, would create more restrictions on climbing in The Canyonlands, which is exactly what happened.

Andrew even went as far as to say that he would have bought Dean a beer if he had been more sneaky ... more >>


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 1, 2007

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Comments: Tony,

From past forums, it's pretty clear to me that you are a bright guy, so I have to wonder why you are trying to hang this discussion up on a point that I have now explained several times.

Lets try this on for size. You keep suggesting that my comment was directed at you (Tony Bubb), among others, when, if you were to read back to the point at which you actually entered the forum, you would realize that you came into the forum long after I made that comment, which was meant for the people... more >>


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 1, 2007

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Comments: "I don't remember talking about Dean and the arch at all. I recall telling you that the reasons why I chose not to climb on arches was other than what you insisted about me and everyone else. No less, I'll take your advice and move on. Nobody likes talking with a bully anyway."

Correction. You presented a this-or-that scenario as your argument for why my comment could not be correct. Then you told me that I was full of it. I took that to mean that you felt that I was being disingenuous... more >>


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 1, 2007

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Comments: Tony,

Are you looking for a merit badge for not climbing DA? Otherwise, what is your point? I have very clearly described my stance on this issue, and I have stood by it throughout all of the backlash from people like you. Why don't you explain exactly why I am full of it, and what I am full of.


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Feb 1, 2007

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Comments: "This is imperically incorrect. There are two possibilities then-

1) That is was closed, so none of us did.
2) That it was open and none of us did.

Regardless, consider your point refuted. Either the arch was closed and Dean climbed a closed arch, or...
It was open and none of us climbed it.

So maybe you are just a little full of it here."


Nice try, Tony, but resorting to false dilemma is a bit condescending. How bout another more obvious possibility like: Most people just assumed... more >>


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Jan 31, 2007

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Comments: "I like informal rules that don't specifically forbid actions(grey areas are nice as long as we aren't childish and don't exploit them."

Most of us prefer informal rules. Unfortunately they don't work on such a large scale.


"I think of the Black Canyon of the Gunnison as the model for which all parks should aspire - climbers maintain a low profile and do their climbing with no publicity or media spotlight. Obviously Arches is a bit different because of the accessible nature and... more >>


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Jan 31, 2007

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Comments: "No offense Ken, but I think you are sidestepping my point. I do see your point, and I want to agree with you. In almost any case but this I would. It is just those cameras he insisted on having film the climb. I think I already said that I wouldn't have had a problem with Potter climbing Delicate Arch if he hadn't blown it up to the media. I would have bought him a beer if he had kept it low profile and found out by word of mouth and not through anchor restrictions at one of my favorite cl... more >>


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Jan 31, 2007

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Comments: No hard feelings, Brad. I would be glad to have a beer with you anytime. I think sharing our love of climbing would make for much better conversation this beating this dead horse any more.


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Jan 31, 2007

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Comments: No offense, Andrew, but I think you missed my point.


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Jan 31, 2007

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Comments: "Ken,

Thanks for trying to enlighten us."


You're welcome.


"1. You implied that what Dean did was no different than any of the first ascentionists that have placed anchors on a tower route in Arches and that they promoted themselves in the same fashion as Dean.

Wrong.

If that were true then the following would have happened after all of those other climbs.

a. they would have been the direct catalyst for climbing closures in the park

b. they would have drawn federal scrutiny... more >>


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Jan 31, 2007

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Comments: Sam,

I should have been more specific when I said "It makes THOSE OF YOU who are doing it sound like a bunch of spoiled brats." You were not included in that statement. I was referring to the Dean bashers. They are doing nothing to help this situation.


Location: UT : Moab Area : Arches National Park : Arches NP - Anchor Replacem...
By: KCP When: Jan 31, 2007

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Comments: "local citizens as well as Utah Senator Orrin Hatch very publicly stated their anger."

With all due respect, what's your point? Here is a little light on where Mr. Hatch stands on environmental issues:

ontheissues.org/Domestic/Orrin...

As for the angry tourists, maybe they should take a few moments to view their effects on that landscape (indiscriminate trampling of vegetation, piles of dog shit, tossing food wrappers out of vehicle windows, etc., etc.). Lets no... more >>


Location: U.S. judge's ruling could e...
By: KCP When: Sep 26, 2006

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Comments: Grant Bryans wrote:

"if this is truly a public Forrest than everyone should have to pay to maintain it...EVEN if they choose and yes it is a choice not to use the Forrest...so if we make some sort of excise tax on the USFS we surely can make up for the lack of user fees...."

Some history: cr.nps.gov/history/online_book...


Location: U.S. judge's ruling could e...
By: KCP When: Sep 24, 2006

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Comments: Alan Searcy Wrote:

"It's interesting that when we are taxed for the fire department to show up, they do and we don't have to buy an annual pass to get them to really come when there's a fire. I don't have to pay any police or swat team member a user fee when they respond to a call at my home or business. They are funded by taxes just like the NPS. If the cops need bigger guns, they don't charge me more, they budget for em with my tax money and buy them. I liken the bullshit park fees to buying ... more >>


Location: Via Ferrata - Utah Style
By: KCP When: Sep 18, 2006

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Comments: I don't believe that any rational person, after having climbed a Via Ferrata, is going to advocate setting them up on every cliff in the nation, nor will having done so inspire them to want trams and restaurants on every summit.

I do believe, however, that the average person, after having experienced it, will have a better understanding of why climbing and preservation are so important to those of us who climb on a regular basis. Better understanding and empathy by the general public for what ... more >>


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